If you're programming drums for a project, say with SD, at what point in the process do you convert the tracks to a wav and then import back into the project and would you add effects, comp, eq etc before doing so or after? And are there any tips, tricks, pointers, etc in regards to this that you can share? Thanks in advance.
Drum programming
- Thread starter Blast
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'll set up my grooves...then I playback as MIDI from the DAW and record them as audio to my 2" tape deck.
From that point on I use the audio tracks only, so that way...the drum tracks on the tape, are no different than other tracks I record...and then I'll dump everything from the tape deck back to the DAW as audio tracks when I have all my other tracks recorded.
Even if I was going to work ITB...I would rather convert the MIDI to audio tracks as soon as the groove is done, and from that point work with only audio tracks.
I've done the hybrid MIDI/Audio thing way back in the past...and it ended up being a PITA later on when I want to revisit those mixes.
With audio tracks...you have them, and you can take them anywhere. With MIDI, you have to get all those other pieces lined up too and you're constantly dealing with plugs for the drums. I would rather just use the plugs on the mix.
Not saying you can't use MIDI and Audio together, but I see no point in making it more complicated. Audio is recorded audio. MIDI can easily get screwed up if you're missing some plug or you lose the settings...etc.
Also....I don't apply any FX/Processing until I have the tracks as audio and part of the total mix.
From that point on I use the audio tracks only, so that way...the drum tracks on the tape, are no different than other tracks I record...and then I'll dump everything from the tape deck back to the DAW as audio tracks when I have all my other tracks recorded.
Even if I was going to work ITB...I would rather convert the MIDI to audio tracks as soon as the groove is done, and from that point work with only audio tracks.
I've done the hybrid MIDI/Audio thing way back in the past...and it ended up being a PITA later on when I want to revisit those mixes.
With audio tracks...you have them, and you can take them anywhere. With MIDI, you have to get all those other pieces lined up too and you're constantly dealing with plugs for the drums. I would rather just use the plugs on the mix.
Not saying you can't use MIDI and Audio together, but I see no point in making it more complicated. Audio is recorded audio. MIDI can easily get screwed up if you're missing some plug or you lose the settings...etc.
Also....I don't apply any FX/Processing until I have the tracks as audio and part of the total mix.
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
SD has a built-in feature to convert the tracks to wav's. I bounce the drum tracks out to my DAW only after I have the final drum parts written and the velocities of each hit adjusted properly. Then, I treat each track like its any other in my session...I can use the EQ plugs I like, the compressors I like, etc... I take that a step further and create busses (snare, kick, toms) for further EQ.
The main problem with keeping the tracks in the SD plug-in is that you can't (as far as i know) use your own plug-ins for them - you'd have to use whatever it comes with. Plus, i just like the familiarity of using my DAW for mixing.
The main problem with keeping the tracks in the SD plug-in is that you can't (as far as i know) use your own plug-ins for them - you'd have to use whatever it comes with. Plus, i just like the familiarity of using my DAW for mixing.
DM60
Well-known member
Yea, that was why P posted that video, if you don't like SD's mixer and plugin's, which I don't, this give all of the flexibility of exporting and creating tracks, without the downside of exporting and creating tracks if there is any change required. I didn't notice any degrading of performance other than the plug in. Plus I can still group as if it were a complete set.
I thought it would be useful for some.
I thought it would be useful for some.
I do convert the drums to .wav files. Started doing this recently. I'm using EZDrummer lately. I work in Reaper. I was hearing problems with the audio quality when I tried to render the mixdown with drums still VST. It could be that my system isn't robust enough, don't know. I could hear it especially on things like cymbals, and quality of the room and overhead tracks. The telltale sign for me was a kind of swirly sound in the cymbals. Just not good enough. It sounds better to my ears if I pre-render the drum tracks.
Typically I render the drum tracks late in the process. Basically, when I've made all the edits that I'm going to make in MIDI, then I'll render. Sometimes I'll do an early render just to get a sneak preview, knowing that I'll have to do it again if I decide to edit more. It only takes five minutes to render the drums, so it's not a big deal.
Why not test it out? Do a render, then A/B against the VST sounds. Listen closely to things like hats, rides, overhead, and room. Listen for things like the quality of the decay. See if it makes a difference to your ears, then go from there.
Typically I render the drum tracks late in the process. Basically, when I've made all the edits that I'm going to make in MIDI, then I'll render. Sometimes I'll do an early render just to get a sneak preview, knowing that I'll have to do it again if I decide to edit more. It only takes five minutes to render the drums, so it's not a big deal.
Why not test it out? Do a render, then A/B against the VST sounds. Listen closely to things like hats, rides, overhead, and room. Listen for things like the quality of the decay. See if it makes a difference to your ears, then go from there.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I use SD, and I've used the internal bounce to audio...and it works fine.
However, I discovered one issue.
If you have say....SD MIDI tracks....and you have some synth MIDI tracks...and you want to bounce everything out to audio...the tracks have a minor synchronization issue, because the SD bounce and the synth bounce are not using the same mechanism to do the bounces.
It's minor...but it can be audible enough.
So instead I just record out with all the MIDI tracks in real time, and the sync-lock is perfect.
I think you are right, and it may not be always.
Playing back lots of samples in real-time can be a system strain...or simply the way the sampler is playing them back, as it's about triggering samples, and not playing existing audio tracks...but it's more than just the computer processing.
It may not be an issue for folks...but let's say down the road, you get a new computer...you install new plugs...you change up you DAW...etc..
...by leaving them as MIDI....all that shit has to come together perfectly down the road should ever need it. If for instance you no longer have a particular plug or the sample pack, or you can't use it with your new systems etc...your MIDI tracks will need to be recreated, or at least you will have to reassign shit and maybe use different plugs or sample...etc.
I use to do part MIDI/part Audio...and once I pulled up some old stuff, and realized that I was missing some of the patches/settings...and now everything sounded different.
Once it's exported to audio...it's an audio track and it will always sound the same.
Of course you want to wait until you've made all your decisions about the MIDI track...etc...but once you are set, there's no benefit to leaving it MIDI, and it actually drags down your DAW since you have to keep using the plugs.
Not to mention...I just like having all my tracks as audio since they are committed. I mean, if you have 20 audio tracks which are committed, what's the point of keeping just the drum tracks as MIDI, if you are at the state of working up your mix?
I also found that to my ears...the audio sounds better when I dump it out from MIDI to my tape deck, than it did when I was just playing back MIDI samples. It just gets a fatter sound, especially the drums.