Drum Mics help?

[metalj]

Amen brutha. For real.

LOL I will disagree with everything both of you said from a home recording perspective. It's ok we have different views. Yes the best way to go is real drums in a real studio with a real engineer and a real producer and thousands of dollars worth of mics and outboard gear. HELLO LOL can you give me $5000-$10,000 to do this for me ? LOL . Hope you are getting my point. The OPer has a $1300 budget.

You would be hard pressed to find another drummer to match the skills and creativity of the drummer in the clip I posted earlier. There is no degradation of talent or creativity in the art in my sample clip I don't see how your argument holds water. Did you listen to the clip? Careful placement of the overheads, and room mics capture the real drums and its blended in with the triggered close mics. There is no other verbs or other effects added to the clip and its not even really mixed perfect yet OR mastered yet.

Whats the difference between triggered samples and you using a fancy mic, putting your effects chain on every channel to sweeten it up ? Both approaches work and both approaches alter the original sound of the drum to make it sound better. So I don't quite get that you are stuck on some sort of "integrity" issue when you are not fully using just the raw recorded drum sounds.

For $300, I feel this is a VERY useful tool for home recording enthusiasts.

Again, I'm not saying its the greatest drum recording ever, but you cant deny it sound pretty damn good for the tools used. Right ? LOL And I know TONS of bands that would KILL to have drums recorded and sound this good. AND AGAIN, I am only trying the serve the original poster of this thread to help him make a decision. maybe it works for him. Another point of view that fits into his budget and is easy.

here is the clip again in case you missed.
https://soundcloud.com/signs-of-reign/ibt-drum-check-1

Regarding a live use. YES you could use this just fine and yes excess noise could be a problem. But only if you are still a dinosaur using loud floor monitors and not using IEMs

 

[ex351d]

metalj, samples are a cool tool to use, and I use them a lot. But I use these to create a song idea and send it to my band mates such that, the others can practice to it and understand what I had in mind so that would be able to elaborate and compliment my idea. In the past I went to a studio and there they insisted to mix triggers with the drums and the result was an average song. We still went past anything we expected with the song, but if it was recorded and mixed properly it would have been even better. There are some useful youtube channels that go in detail about recodring live drums and triggered samples.

And if there is no budget for tom close mics, simply use the condensors to pick up the toms. Something similar to the Glyn Johns method could be used to record drums with few mics.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Here is a picture of a 421 capsule. View attachment 92956

If you imagine that sitting in a 421 body, you can see that it isn't that big. If you take apart a 604, the diaphragm is the size of the inside of the case. They may not be the exact same size (I can't find a measurement on line), but they are pretty close.

Bit late to the party, but the coil you can see there is a hum bucking coil and is not the size of the diaphragm.
The diaphragm is behind that, under the gray clothy material. It's about the same size as the ones in Akg D12 and re20.
I don't the exact size, but they're at least an inch as far as I know.

A lot of people online seem to think the 421 and 604 share a capsule but I don't see how it'd physically fit inside a 604 body.

 

[Greg_L]

LOL I will disagree with everything both of you said from a home recording perspective. It's ok we have different views. Yes the best way to go is real drums in a real studio with a real engineer and a real producer and thousands of dollars worth of mics and outboard gear. HELLO LOL can you give me $5000-$10,000 to do this for me ? LOL . Hope you are getting my point. The OPer has a $1300 budget.

You would be hard pressed to find another drummer to match the skills and creativity of the drummer in the clip I posted earlier. There is no degradation of talent or creativity in the art in my sample clip I don't see how your argument holds water. Did you listen to the clip? Careful placement of the overheads, and room mics capture the real drums and its blended in with the triggered close mics. There is no other verbs or other effects added to the clip and its not even really mixed perfect yet OR mastered yet.

Whats the difference between triggered samples and you using a fancy mic, putting your effects chain on every channel to sweeten it up ? Both approaches work and both approaches alter the original sound of the drum to make it sound better. So I don't quite get that you are stuck on some sort of "integrity" issue when you are not fully using just the raw recorded drum sounds.

For $300, I feel this is a VERY useful tool for home recording enthusiasts.

Again, I'm not saying its the greatest drum recording ever, but you cant deny it sound pretty damn good for the tools used. Right ? LOL And I know TONS of bands that would KILL to have drums recorded and sound this good. AND AGAIN, I am only trying the serve the original poster of this thread to help him make a decision. maybe it works for him. Another point of view that fits into his budget and is easy.

here is the clip again in case you missed.
https://soundcloud.com/signs-of-reign/ibt-drum-check-1

Regarding a live use. YES you could use this just fine and yes excess noise could be a problem. But only if you are still a dinosaur using loud floor monitors and not using IEMs

This is fucking hilarious. Have you ever even recorded real drums successfully? I bet not, because no one that can actually record real drums is as steadfastly ignorant as you are about it. I bet you've never even tried, or have tried and have failed miserably. It's everyone and everything else's fault but your own, right? Drum recording is some black art only for the super rich, right? You've found the secret to not needing any talent or skill whatsoever! Lol. I actually kind of feel sorry for you, and I really feel sorry for anyone that actually falls for your bullshit.

 

[metalj]

Thanks, I appreciate your kind words.

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks, I appreciate your kind words.

It's tough love, dude. You need it. You are always entitled to your own opinions about things, but sometimes you're just plain old fucking wrong, and someone has to tell you. Learn from this. Your entire thought process is ass-backwards.

 

[metalj]

This is fucking hilarious. Have you ever even recorded real drums successfully? I bet not, because no one that can actually record real drums is as steadfastly ignorant as you are about it. I bet you've never even tried, or have tried and have failed miserably. It's everyone and everything else's fault but your own, right? Drum recording is some black art only for the super rich, right? You've found the secret to not needing any talent or skill whatsoever! Lol. I actually kind of feel sorry for you, and I really feel sorry for anyone that actually falls for your bullshit.

Gregg, you love the sound of your own voice too don't you LOL. You are missing the point completely. You are still stuck in trying to argue a method of how to do something. I am only pointing out another option for the OPer. LOL, somethings will never change.

BTW I took a listen to quite a few of your "demo's" you have posted on your sites. I think you have quite a ways to go before making such statements and being so confident and all knowing. I certainly don't claim to be anything but a 48 year old guy songwriter and a musician that is trying to figure out a way to be independent and still happy with the results and help my brothers in music have something to show for their work when I have time. I don't charge anyone anything and from what I heard from your sound samples you claim to be a professional studio guy that people pay (maybe I'm wrong)? Sorry man but you asked for it by your last comment and I don't feel good saying it, but felt compelled to bring you back into reality as I've seen you piss a lot of people off on this site over the years.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Metal J,
I've only seen a handful of your posts but you seem to be asking for drum recording/manipulating advice from a very beginner perspective, then running around getting into fights with people over how your canned drums are better than their actual drums.

I'm starting to see where Jimmy was coming from....

What have I missed?

Maybe reel in the personal attacks?

 

[Greg_L]

Gregg, you love the sound of your own voice too don't you LOL. You are missing the point completely. You are still stuck in trying to argue a method of how to do something. I am only pointing out another option for the OPer. LOL, somethings will never change.

BTW I took a listen to quite a few of your "demo's" you have posted on your sites. I think you have quite a ways to go before making such statements and being so confident and all knowing. I certainly don't claim to be anything but a 48 year old guy songwriter and a musician that is trying to figure out a way to be independent and still happy with the results and help my brothers in music have something to show for their work when I have time. I don't charge anyone anything and from what I heard from your sound samples you claim to be a professional studio guy that people pay (maybe I'm wrong)? Sorry man but you asked for it by your last comment and I don't feel good saying it, but felt compelled to bring you back into reality as I've seen you piss a lot of people off on this site over the years.

Lol. When it comes to home recording real drums, compared to a clueless buffoon like you, yes I am indeed confident and all knowing. Listen, you're like the millionth pissed off butthurt forum idiot to take shots at me. I get it, you do it because you're upset and it's literally the only thing you have to defend yourself with. You can't argue your position because your position is fucking stupid, so you go personal with it. No problem. It's what everyone does. I couldn't care less what some halfass hack wannabe thinks of me or my music, so save that dumb shit.

Big picture dude. You're missing it completely, and if you can't or won't rectify that, then you're the problem, not the solution.

 

[metalj]

Metal J,
I've only seen a handful of your posts but you seem to be asking for drum recording/manipulating advice from a very beginner perspective, then running around getting into fights with people over how your canned drums are better than their actual drums.

I'm starting to see where Jimmy was coming from....

What have I missed?

Maybe reel in the personal attacks?

And you got this by reading a handful of posts ? Do you see where this thread has gone? All I did was offer an option to the OP and a sound sample to review. Sorry but I will not be blamed for this. I suggest you go back to page 1 and read from the beginning. All I have done is offer an objective point of view. I have never once claimed that the way I am doing drums this time is any better than anyone else.

Do you know this is not even my thread ? so you need to read up from the beginning sir and get your facts straight. My thread on a problem I was having is on another listing.

 

[GuitarLegend]

LOL I will disagree with everything both of you said from a home recording perspective. It's ok we have different views. Yes the best way to go is real drums in a real studio with a real engineer and a real producer and thousands of dollars worth of mics and outboard gear. HELLO LOL can you give me $5000-$10,000 to do this for me ? LOL . Hope you are getting my point. The OPer has a $1300 budget.

I'm not talking about breaking the bank here. My main drum mic kit is Audix DP7 consisting of 2 x D2s, a D4, a D6, an i5 and 2 x ADX 51s. I also have an AKG D112 for some kick drums. But I never have to use anything else for a full mic kit. If I use the Glyn Johns method, then I also have the option of using a matched pair of AKG C414 xls but could still do it with the ADX 51s. Once you have successfully experienced recording real drums then you will KNOW that any other method is a cheap trick and it doesn't give you anything like the satisfaction of doing it right.

 

[metalj]

Lol. When it comes to home recording real drums, compared to a clueless buffoon like you, yes I am indeed confident and all knowing. Listen, you're like the millionth pissed off butthurt forum idiot to take shots at me. I get it, you do it because you're upset and it's literally the only thing you have to defend yourself with. You can't argue your position because your position is fucking stupid, so you go personal with it. No problem. It's what everyone does. I couldn't care less what some halfass hack wannabe thinks of me or my music, so save that dumb shit.

Big picture dude. You're missing it completely, and if you can't or won't rectify that, then you're the problem, not the solution.

I agree I am clueless, that is why I come to this website to ask and learn different methods. You are a toxic member that makes a place like this an undesirable place to even come.

My ears don't lie man, you have a lot of work to do on your recordings, that is probably why people take shots at you. You ask for it in spades dude, so don't play the the innocent card when someone shoves it back into your face.

You are the so called professional, I am not, thats why is so laughable to me. I think you should change your name to CliffyClaven666

 

[Greg_L]

I agree I am clueless, that is why I come to this website to ask and learn different methods. You are a toxic member that makes a place like this an undesirable place to even come.

My ears don't lie man, you have a lot of work to do on your recordings, that is probably why people take shots at you. You ask for it in spades dude, so don't play the the innocent card when someone shoves it back into your face.

You are the so called professional, I am not, thats why is so laughable to me. I think you should change your name to CliffyClaven666

This is exactly what I mean. Funny how honest people, people that actually make good mixes themselves don't have any problem with me. It's always the trolls, idiots, hacks, frauds, fakes, and forum losers like yourself that go bananas when hit with some truth. People take shots at me because they're upset. It's no big deal. I'm not worried about it. You can't make me better, so wtf do I care what someone worse off than me would think? You're just another butthurt idiot.

 

[Steenamaroo]

And you got this by reading a handful of posts ? Do you see where this thread has gone?

Yes and yes.

All I did was offer an option to the OP and a sound sample to review.

Nope. You seem to be attacking people, reporting posts, passing comment on other people's recording, pi$$ing people off, ignoring helpful posts, and generally acting like everyone else is the problem.

I suggest you go back to page 1 and read from the beginning.

Heh. Thanks for the suggestion.
I'll do that when I'm getting paid by the hour.

Do you know this is not even my thread?

Yup.

My thread on a problem I was having is on another listing.

I'm aware of that.

I did say "What have I missed?" but you chose to attack me instead of answering.

 

[RAMI]

.......................

 

[Greg_L]

Funny how everyone here, friends and strangers, consider Greg's to be probably at the top of bar for home recordings, and not far from any pro sounding.

It's only the whiny, un-talented, clueless, butthurt baffoons that will go the "you've got a long way to go with your recordings" route when they get sand in their vaginas.

MetalJ, please post a finished song of yours. I'm dying to hear something of yours. Don't worry, most of us here are mature enough to be honest about it. We won't say it's shit just because you're as whiny as an 11 year old girl. Please, post something. Anyone can criticize if they can't put up. The only other option is to shut the fuck up.

Lol. I'm not even saying I'm great or the best or anything. I've never said that. I don't think that. but I'm not going to consider the butthurt opinions of someone worse off than I am. That's stupid. I watch football all the time. I can tell Peyton Manning what I think he's doing wrong. He'd be a fucking moron to listen to me though. That's how I feel about these goofs that attack us. Sure, fine, you're mad blah blah blah. I suck, we all suck, I'm no good. Blah blah blah. You can't make me better though, so STFU.

 

[metalj]

Funny how everyone here, friends and strangers, consider Greg's to be probably at the top of bar for home recordings, and not far from any pro sounding.

It's only the whiny, un-talented, clueless, butthurt baffoons that will go the "you've got a long way to go with your recordings" route when they get sand in their vaginas.

MetalJ, please post a finished song of yours. I'm dying to hear something of yours. Don't worry, most of us here are mature enough to be honest about it. We won't say it's shit just because you're as whiny as an 11 year old girl. Please, post something. Anyone can criticize if they can't put up. The only other option is to shut the fuck up.

RAMI have you read the entire thread ? based your comments I don't think you have. I understand as its probably alot of reading what are we up to 10 pages now LOL, I am not a studio guy, I am a musician and song writer. I actually pay professionals to do my recordings. I am only trying to help a friend OK ? Nothing more nothing less.

Look for my new thread. I'll post something for you to listen to. I don't want to take up anymore space of the OP. Seriously if you guys go back and re-read from the beginning you may have a different opinion.

 

[metalj]

I'm not talking about breaking the bank here. My main drum mic kit is Audix DP7 consisting of 2 x D2s, a D4, a D6, an i5 and 2 x ADX 51s. I also have an AKG D112 for some kick drums. But I never have to use anything else for a full mic kit. If I use the Glyn Johns method, then I also have the option of using a matched pair of AKG C414 xls but could still do it with the ADX 51s. Once you have successfully experienced recording real drums then you will KNOW that any other method is a cheap trick and it doesn't give you anything like the satisfaction of doing it right.

I completely agree.

 

[Greg_L]

I read you say that close mics don't matter on drums, so right then and there I knew you are not someone worth listening to when it comes to recording instruments..

 

[metalj]

I read you say that close mics don't matter on drums, so right then and there I knew you are not someone worth listening to when it comes to recording instruments..

They don't matter when Triggering. The most important mics when triggering IS the overheads and the room mics. Of course the close mics matter when when not triggering.