Doing A Live Recording With This Gear

Anyway, I will set the levels in the Mackie 402 VLZ and take the output to the tape recorder or to the macintosh. I am getting some paired mics now. Do you think they could work best for this situation?
 
The stereo recording idea isn't a bad one, but my inclination would be to use one channel for drums and the other for the rest of the band and mix them to mono later. I might use two mics in a wide (150 degrees or so) X-Y configuration sort of like overheads. So I guess in that case a pair of the same model mics might be a good thing. But for this setup you could use two different mic since you don't need to maintain a stereo image.
 
I'm not a fan of the stereo mics for this situation,. If you have a little cash to spend on this project, do you have a music shop close? you'd be way better off to rent a bigger mixer and a few more mics. shouldn't be that expensive. certainly no more than buying 2 new mics that won't benefit you on this job with your current mixer. I don't know what your arrangement with the band is, but if my 6 piece band showed up to track a demo I was paying for and the recordist only had a $50 mac and 2 mics I'd likely be pretty dissapointed.

That said,.I'm pretty sure your sound card just has an in(mic logo) and out(speaker logo),.but you should be able to select either line or mic in the software/driver settings,. look to make sure its set at 16bit/44k while you there,. should be in the same place.
 
I'll take your word that the mic input is stereo (but I have doubts that it actually is) Line-in inputs on computers are usually stereo, and mic inputs are mono. TRS does not mean it is stereo.
 
Hi, dyermaker8,
I was able to set the rate and frequency and set levels in the mixer. Got the Stereo mics now, and a mixer, A yamaha mg102 C a 6 channel mixer. So now I have a six channel mixer and this mics: sm57, a sennheiser e835, a behringer c1 condenser and a stereo pair condenser mics C2. Have the same room and same recorders
 
Hi mjbphotos,

I was testing the input in the Pro Tools FREE in the mac os 9 and it seems to work stereo. It recognises left and right on their own place. Also, I updated some gear that could help me get a better demo
 
Thats so awesome, seems like nobody ever takes any of the solid advise thats given around here, but you did! Way to go! I'll try to give you some decent pointers and hopefully others will chime in as well.

Have you ever done live sound? Cause thats basically where you're at now,. The difference being that you'll be listening to your soundboard mix through headphones instead of on stage monitors! This is actually much easier in many ways as you wont have to deal with feedback/stage monitors. What kind of Headphones are you using? If the bands not too loud a nice set of flat response closed back cans will be needed. You might need to monitor from a different room. I've also used hearing protection earmuffs over top of in ear monitors (earbuds),. but bass is tricky on those but it can be done.

You still have a couple of things to watch out for.

Room. What kinda room are we talkin bout here. dimensions (LxWxH)? vaulted ceilings? windows? doors? closets? treatment available(anybody have access to some cheap/free fiberglass insulation, pink fluff will do)? will you be mixing in this room also? This info is needed to start planning placement, and to determine options for dealing with room noise.

Drums. What kinda percussion are we talking about here? Big kit, jazz kit,. is the drummer more of a light handed minimalist,. or more the get people dancin drummer? If your dedicated to tracking everything live with no overdubs drums are still a primary concern,. seperating and isolating them from other instrumentation will be key in your ability to get the mix to the level your probably looking for.

mics/mic placement. Hopefully you've heard the band before and are familier with there work. which mic to use and thier placement in this situation should largely be dictated by how the band wants to represent themselves,. When they play live do they ever plug in? or do they just play small places where they can be heard acoustically with maybe one vocal mic(like a restaraunt or similar). Do any of the instruments take solos? These questions might give you insight into how the band might want to highlight certain parts of thier sound they think are worth amplifing(or in this case, micing individually). That being said, your stereo mics will pic EVERYTHING up. I'm guessing the drums and accordian will be the things that stick out. Provided everything is in the same room I'd stick the accordian close to the drums, both should be futher away from the stereo mics then the rest of the band. If the accordian is featured you could either A: give it a mic, B: plug it in to the mixer direct,. probably into an guitar/instrument input, not sure what your mixer has. If its not featured the drum and stereo mics will pick it up fine,. You'll probably want to Hi-pass filter every channel on the board your using.

The vocals want to be captured by the c1, and thats probably what its sole purpose should be. I would definatly have it set so the vocalist all have close access to it,. you should probably get/make a pop screen for it,. it can serve dual purpose as pop filter/ general area target for the singers so they know to get close to it, but are also kept away from the mic so as to not overload it. If they are not monitoring on headphones this will help keep levels on that mic in check a little.

Prep,. Before you do anything else plug everything in,. set some levels. make sure your software is getting a signal and hit that record button,. go talk/sing/play to all those mics,. and then listen to what you recorded. Now you know what kind of recording quality your dealing with,. you know stuff works,. and you have a better idea of what to expect from your mics. Hopefully you can do all this in the actual recording space and you'll get an idea of what the room sounds like as well.

Also,.Your using protools! I bet your mac could probably handle a few more tracks. You've got enough tools there to kick things up a notch. If you go back and let the vocalist do another take while monitoring on headphones you could mix them seperatly and make them shine. Same thing with other instruments. This takes more time, effort, and players that know thier material well and have good time. But its very worth it,. and will take the recording to increasingly more professional results. If time is the main concern, Limit the session to 2-3 songs. As a performer I'd much rather have a quality 3 song demo than a lesser quality 6 song EP. But that may be more of a concern for the band to deal with. I'd give them the option anyway.
 
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Just checked out that Mixer so lets add a couple of things.

That board only has 4 mic preamps,. so thats how many mics your going to be able to use on this board at once unless you daisy chain it with your other smaller board to get 6,. which is fine,. just a little more complicated,. but lets stick with the yamahas 4 channels for now.

Channel 1 and 2 have that cute one knob compressor,. i'm not sure how usefull it would be on the vocal mic but its worth trying,. I'd stick the c1 on channel 1 and the drum mic on channel 2,. which will probably benefit from the compression. Stick your stereo mics on channel 3-4 and if you want compression on them do it in post processing.

If you feel like another instrument would benefit from micing or you want to run the accordian direct , plug those into your Mackie,. I notice both its channels have an instrument input switch so you could plug in a guitar/accordian/bass and it should work fine. If you go this route just run the tape out from the Mackie to the 2tr input on the Yamaha and set levels accordingly.
 
Hi, dyermaker8,

Thanks for your help here. I follow advice because I asked for it. I appreciate a lot your full advice it is very interesting and gave me a huge lead on doing this project.

About the rooms: The place is a 2 story house dedicated for this business and will be treated as by the way I gather knowledge about treatment and also the resources to afford different kind of treatment. The largest room is a 22x13x10 foot space downstairs. Do you this is a good idea to locate the drum kit upstairs? just to make some separation.. but I do not know if the band can play that way.

About the mixers: yes, I think i would be linking them. And also, the band told me they have their own live gear. Maybe a bigger mixer, some live monitors and long cables. Because it is inside a house, shall I use live stage monitors?

Also today I received this book I ordered 4 months ago! I woke up and it was in the mailbox. Maybe it could help me too IMG_20150122_101807832[1].jpg

Thanks for the advices you and everyone
 
Monitors are a big no. They are not needed unless they are having problems hearing themselves, and even then, when tracking closed back headphones are the preference as they are more accurate and thier output will not be picked up by the microphones.

Yes, you might make good use of their mixer, mics, cables, and stands.

Drums upstairs would also likely be a no. An adjacent but somewhat isolated room would be better. Your main room seems big enough to be successful with treatment,. I highlighted my questions earlier,. go back and answer them so we can discuss potential room treatment.

Does the band have anything posted on the web we can check out? Perhaps a shoddy cell phone youtube video or something to give us more of an idea of thier setup/sound?

Thats a fun book, lots of good info in there. Start reading.
 
Hi, Dyermaker8,

I have one pair of Behringer closed headphones that seem ok. I like hearing to them. Later I will surely upgrade headphones and leave this for tracking purposes. But right now these headphones are the pair I got.
Yes, It is a decent sized room that it is made of two rooms, one that supposed to be a kitchen and the other one a receiver. But they are used for another purpose now and there is no separation between them. The receiver part of the room has two windows which I covered with blankets. The ventilation duct is blocked with some foam and there is this stair which I cannot block so the sound goes upstairs, there, I put a blanket in the handrail. In the room also I have a cardboard box stuffed with a heavy blanket which also sometimes I use it to separate a little bit the kitchen room from the receiver room.
Could it work better if I hang it again?

A thing about the kitchen room: it has wall tile, like a 2foot wide stripe around 2 walls of the room.
Also It is supposed to be delivered a shipment with 8 pieces, density number 17, foam boards. 2x2 foot each. With different patterns: 4 pyramidal, 2 diffussor like and 2 comb like.
Also I have two wooden pallets standing there covered with heavy canvas. Maybe the could act as a fence for the drum kit. Which is a jazz kit, some drums, snare, bassdrum hithats and cymbals.
I am working on a piece of audio of the band for everyone to hear and have an idea of the band.

Thanks
 
Hi, Boulder Sound Guy, it is música norteña, norteño music. Those music groups are called conjunto norteño. There is a bajo sexto, thats right. Nice!
 
Nice. If any of the Elders are following, I just want to note how relevant I think this thread is. Its hits on alot of very common issues. Maybe all of them,.lol.

Headphones. Those should be fine. You should be listening to ALOT of similar music to what your recording on them. You need to learn what they do to your source audio. For example; Your headphones have a reduced or flat low end response,. the reference tracks you listen to don't have the tumpin bass your used to hearing in your car. When mixing, you might be tempted to boost the lows to get it that thumpin bass in your headphones. No bueno. You need to mix that bass at level similar to what your reference tracks sound like on your headphones. The bass is still there. It will come back out when you play it on other speakers, the same way your reference tracks do.

I listened to the track you posted with drums. And there you have it, this is very similar to what your recording would sound like if you did it with just the stereo mics in an untreated room. Sure, the fidelity might increase and the noise floor/headroom would be improved,. but The vocals and alot of the instruments are buried under the drums and accordian. The female vocalist is plenty talented and while the rest of the band may object,. she is the star. Give her that C1 and get her isolated if possible,. some kind of vocal booth would be nice. Whats that room with tile sound like? Step in there and talk/sing/play. Sometimes a room just sounds cool. You could put her and the instruments in there and capture that room sound. I would still want an isolated and dry vocal on its own track. Ambiance/reverb is way more easy to add as an effect than it is to find naturally in small rooms. You'll still want bass traps. Corners are a must. The more the better. Fiberglass is king. It eats bass. Compressed is better. It wants to be in places where sound reflecting back needs to be discouraged. Studio foams like you ordered do something similar but with highs and mids rather than bass. They will be used to tame first point reflections at your mixing position when you get studio monitors. Bass is the bigger problem in small studios. Everything with mass has some effect on traveling soundwaves. If its slick it will probably reflect sound to some degree. If its fuzzy or sponge like it will probably absorb sound to some degree. Hanging blankets in a corner to make a vocal booth will have better results than no blankets. But it will be much better if those blankets had fiberglass stuffed into them. or behind them,.
Studio foam would also make a better iso booth than blankets.
Blankets kinda suck,. never buy them for this purpose.

Stuff those pallets with fiberglass and you might have something though. Ditch the canvas. No lose boards allowed. Drum shield, maybe. I like that its a smaller kit and the drummer is in more of a percussion role, much easier to work with. I think the 57 setup like I mentioned before will work fine. If you could position properly this might work as a vocal booth as well. That cardboard box can go,. probably reflects more high end than anything else,. which might sound like its blocking sound on one side,. but on the other the reflections are going back into the mic to mess things up. Your playing pool with sound, the walls are the rails, the floor and ceiling are like the table. When sound hits walls some of it reflects,. when sound hits sound phase issues(cancelation) occur. Throw a pool ball at your wall, not good. Put a blanket on your wall and try it again,. not as bad. Now try compressed fiberglass,. oh! that didn't hurt the wall at all! Why did I just throw a poolball at my now broken expensive fiberglass bass trap?!?!

I'm done now.
 
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Hi, Dyermaker,

I want to thank you for your advices. I am pretty sure they are going to be helpful for other home recordists. I would go ahead and do the best with what I have right now and I will continue improving the house day by day.

Any other suggestions, from everyone, are welcome. The idea is to give more and more ideas to improve our works.

I will limit my options as if my life depends on it and I´ll put in practice the advices you guys gave me.
 
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