Do you edit your bass lines?

[Nola]

Do you guys edit your bass lines so they line up better with the drums?

I'm not talking about bass lines that are way off. Those obviously need redoing. I'm talking about the "human feel" of being like a smidge off where it's not even noticeable to the ear, but you can see it on the grid. I'm not sure if I should edit them to make the bass line tighter, or leave them for the human element.

 

[Robus]

I edit all mine. It doesn't diminish the human feel as long as you don't go crazy. Main thing is to get a take that has the right feel, even if there are mistakes. So if you're hearing it behind the beat, play it that way. Then edit the timing mistakes here and there. Or, if you tracked several takes, comp together the parts you like best.

Bass parts are friendly to edit, because if you do it right you'll never hear the edits in the mix. If you need to snip and nudge notes around, Reaper's auto-crossfade makes it seamless.

 

[Armistice]

Hell yeah, being an average bass player.

 

[Greg_L]

Not even a little. I just play well.

 

[rayc]

I've being playing bass badly since 1973 but not so badly that my timing is out.
The only time I've had an issue has been when real drums are added after the rest of the tracks - usually the drum machine is a little loose or doesn't drive the song so re-tracking bass is a usual, and good, option for me.

 

[skwee]

depends on if you are playing a bass guitar or playing it on synth. I feel like I have to nudge the synth out of sync here and there to make it sound human if I go that direction. But usually I'm playing bass guitar, so the feel is pretty good. Occasionally when tracking I have to tweak an entrance or two.

 

[ido1957]

Never - Mike has awesome timing lol.

 

[Btyre2013]

I edit them quite a bit, sometimes to make notes shorter to help the groove, obviously it's always better when a bassist can actually play perfectly though.

 

[Farview]

No, I don't.

As a musician, you have two jobs:
1. Be in tune
2. Be on time

If you are not on time, or in tune, you aren't playing the song.

Something the OP said that seemed odd to me: " I'm talking about the "human feel" of being like a smidge off where it's not even noticeable to the ear, but you can see it on the grid."

If you can't hear it being off, why do you give a good god damn what it looks like??!!!! Do you even know what a good groove looks like? It certainly isn't everything being exactly on a grid. If that were the case, midi would be the way to go in every situation always.

Stop looking at your music...listen to it. IF you can't play the part well enough for it to sound good, then you aren't ready to record it. Practice the part until you can play it well enough to record.

 

[andrushkiwt]

IF you can't play the part well enough for it to sound good, then you aren't ready to record it. Practice the part until you can play it well enough to record.

eerr... i move mine.

I have a tendency to be slightly early (that's what she said!) on guitar and bass. I get anxious and I am also pretty animated when playing. I can't sit still like a statue and expect myself to deliver the right vibe/feel, so I try to keep it as tight as I can, then I go over it later and nudge some notes into the kick, if needed. It's a small amount, but yes I do move some.

 

[Nola]

Do you even know what a good groove looks like?

No.

I'd really like to see one on a grid. It would probably make the OCD settle down. What happens is it sounds good, but then I look at the grid and see a few notes are off, and in either direction(a hair early or late), and I think "this was recorded to a drum machine, which is precise, so the notes must be precise, too!" and get all anal. I recorded this same song analog a few years ago, and I bet the bass is a hair off in that version, too, but it sounds good. I didn't have a grid to look at then. I think the grid, and seeing that it's not perfect, is just making ocd kick in. It's annoying.

But anyway, what does a good groove look like? Are things off, but they're off the same amount each time so it sounds right?

 

[Nola]

I have a tendency to be slightly early on guitar and bass. I get anxious

That's the exact issue I have. I'll want to get to the next part so I tend to push there. I've been working with that in practice on a metronome, but it's hard since my natural state is high anxiety. So when I lay down bass, I'll try to make it a priority to be late. Almost to the point where I hear the kick and then react -- not quite, but almost. But if I loose that focus just a bit I'll get notes just ahead of the grid. For me it's a mental problem (high anxiety and low focus) more than anything physical. I'm anxious and space out easily, so laying down 4 minutes of bass is not the easiest task.

 

[andrushkiwt]

But anyway, what does a good groove look like? Are things off, but they're off the same amount each time so it sounds right?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this was a rhetorical question. He's saying use your ears, not eyes. It doesn't "look" like anything - It "sounds" like something.

That being said, I find that for my music, what "sounds" like a good groove is the bass/kick being tight. I feel no shame in nudging bass notes a little inward to meet the kick closer.

But that's just me.

 

[andrushkiwt]

... so laying down 4 minutes of bass is not the easiest task.

It's worse for me because I insist on having the best solid and complete take. I don't like punching in. I'll usually keep my 7th or so take on bass. Maybe more. But again, that's every note as close as I can get to perfect. I'll move things if I have to. I don't want to jeopardize an otherwise good take for 5-6 notes I need to slightly push back.

Also, I should be clear that I don't write bass lines ahead of time. When I hit record, I am playing off the top of my head. By the 7th or so try, I have written something I like it and I have played it as good as I can for the next hour, so I use it.

 

[Nola]

It's worse for me because I insist on having the best solid and complete take. I don't like punching in. I'll usually keep my 7th or so take on bass. Maybe more. But again, that's every note as close as I can get to perfect. I'll move things if I have to. I don't want to jeopardize an otherwise good take for 5-6 notes I need to slightly push back.

Also, I should be clear that I don't write bass lines ahead of time. When I hit record, I am playing off the top of my head. By the 7th or so try, I have written something I like it and I have played it as good as I can for the next hour, so I use it.

Yeah this take had 8 bad notes in a 4 minute song. They're all in a quiet section where the kick and snare drop out and it's just the hat going, so I noticed the more drums going the easier it is to keep the time and my focus. So do I do it all over or move 8 notes? Last night my answer was "no", so I moved the notes, but I do feel guilt over it. It's a weird dilemma. I was thinking about doing it over today, and programming more drums into the quiet part for recording purposes, then remove them after.

I'll figure it out, but with this thread I just wanted to hear what others do.

 

[Greg_L]

No, I don't.

As a musician, you have two jobs:
1. Be in tune
2. Be on time

If you are not on time, or in tune, you aren't playing the song.

Something the OP said that seemed odd to me: " I'm talking about the "human feel" of being like a smidge off where it's not even noticeable to the ear, but you can see it on the grid."

If you can't hear it being off, why do you give a good god damn what it looks like??!!!! Do you even know what a good groove looks like? It certainly isn't everything being exactly on a grid. If that were the case, midi would be the way to go in every situation always.

Stop looking at your music...listen to it. IF you can't play the part well enough for it to sound good, then you aren't ready to record it. Practice the part until you can play it well enough to record.

This ^^^^^^^^

 

[fat_fleet]

I punch in a flubbed note here and there, but I don't move anything on my finished tracks. Basically I use a DAW like a tape deck.
Except on guide tracks.. I do wacky shit like move the whole chorus around. That's more part of the writing phase.

 

[Farview]

A groove is usually defined by how certain notes relate to time. It isn't "everything being consistently late/early" or anything like that. Since no one else hears the click or sees the grid, the relationship to that grid cannot have an effect on the groove.

Since there are many different grooves, there are many different answers as to what a good one will look like. Sometimes the time keeping instrument (normally that hat or ride) will push or pull certain hits in a measure. For example lagging slightly on '3' in a 4/4 bar. Sometimes the time keeping instrument is consistent, but the kick pushes and the snare lags compared to the hat...or the other way around.

Once you have the drums doing the groove, then the other instruments do the same thing. A bass note being slightly early will have a different feel to one being slightly late or on time. Oftentimes, a good groove will have some notes in the line consistently late and some consistently early.

The problem comes in when you try to manufacture it. It is so much easier to play a groove than it is to define it and create it on purpose. And, quite frankly, your job as a musician is to play the groove. This takes practice and experience.

What happens a lot now is that people spend more time editing their parts than practicing and performing them. Which means that we are ending up with so-so musicians who are excellent audio editors. Nothing wrong with being an editor, but what is it you are trying to be? A musician or an editor?

 

[miroslav]

Before I got comfortable with bass guitar...I would edit a lot...but it was because I never played the bass, I would just pick it up and try to lay down a bass line.
It took me some time to get past trying to play the bass like I played guitar. I mean...for awhile I was stuck on using felt/rubber picks and all that shit.

Now days...I can play it pretty good, and I now play with my fingers instead of pick, unless I want some of that funky pick tone.
Some involved lines are still a bit harder, but I just don't play bass enough...though I keep my lines failry simple, to support the song...I mean, I'm not doing the 8-string jazz bass stuff.

If I edit anything, it's mostly some of the flubbed notes or excessive fret buzz on some of the note tails....but I'll only align the random notes that don't sound right in the groove. I learned awhile ago that if you align every note to a drum beat...it will be on time, but the groove may totally suck at that point...so any note alignment is only done by ear, and if needed.

 

[Nola]

A groove is usually defined by how certain notes relate to time. It isn't "everything being consistently late/early" or anything like that. Since no one else hears the click or sees the grid, the relationship to that grid cannot have an effect on the groove.

Since there are many different grooves, there are many different answers as to what a good one will look like. Sometimes the time keeping instrument (normally that hat or ride) will push or pull certain hits in a measure. For example lagging slightly on '3' in a 4/4 bar. Sometimes the time keeping instrument is consistent, but the kick pushes and the snare lags compared to the hat...or the other way around.

Once you have the drums doing the groove, then the other instruments do the same thing. A bass note being slightly early will have a different feel to one being slightly late or on time. Oftentimes, a good groove will have some notes in the line consistently late and some consistently early.

The problem comes in when you try to manufacture it. It is so much easier to play a groove than it is to define it and create it on purpose. And, quite frankly, your job as a musician is to play the groove. This takes practice and experience.

What happens a lot now is that people spend more time editing their parts than practicing and performing them. Which means that we are ending up with so-so musicians who are excellent audio editors. Nothing wrong with being an editor, but what is it you are trying to be? A musician or an editor?

Cool, thanks for explaining that about groove.

I looked at all my beats, and the common theme is they're all fairly syncopated, and with the snare hits late, and on the hats are on the grid, but there's a little bit of swing. To me this creates a groove that's got a hip hop + jazz feel. But, I play rock music, so when I lay it down over those beats it just feels like slack rock. This is probably why the early notes on bass bother me so much, because they're clashing with that vibe.

I'm a so-so musician and so-so editor. I think my strength is writing good songs/lyrics. If I didn't have those I'd just quit. I do practice a lot, though. In the past year I upped daily practice to 2hrs, so I'm taking musicianship more seriously. What I'm trying to be is happy with a finished product, nothing more or less.

Thanks for your input, though. It was insightful.