Do I need new audio-interface here ?

The instrument in on an interface to begin with have drawbacks. the biggest one its share the ground with the computer and converter. Second, the loading on the pickups is greater (because the instrument input on the interface is lower impedance than a guitar amp) which causes noise issues too.

A dedicated interface that has both line in and mic pre in. But on the guitars, I would suggest a good DI box.
 
Gillette said:
To be honest, I don't really know what it means to "record at 44.K"..
I use Reaper, it works fine with any vst's or effects. Never recorded something with more than 8 or 9 tracks.
The only problem I had is some noise while recording electric guitar direct trough M-Audio input

here's how it sounds
Noise by Gillette Wilkinson | Free Listening on SoundCloud

and the other problem is condenser mic that I wanted to try, but M-Auido doesn't have phantom power.
Click to expand...

That is a strange noise. The frequency is steady, but it only sounds at the loudest part of the guitar notes. I think its a problem with the interface/input section itself. It's not a ground loop problem or a pickup problem.
 
mjbphotos said:
That is a strange noise. The frequency is steady, but it only sounds at the loudest part of the guitar notes. I think its a problem with the interface/input section itself. It's not a ground loop problem or a pickup problem.
Click to expand...

Thank you mjbphotos, I think it's strange too.
I've spent many hours to figure out what it is, and couldn't find the source of that noise.
Usually, people have some noise without even touching the strings, but when they tuch them, the noise goes away (ground issuses, etc)

Here, is completely opposite, so I don't know what could it be.
Someone mentioned that it's because 16-Bit, 44.1 kHz thing..but I don't know.
And if it's the input section, is there some way to fix that?
 
Gillette said:
Someone mentioned that it's because 16-Bit, 44.1 kHz thing..but I don't know.
And if it's the input section, is there some way to fix that?
Click to expand...
No, it's NOT the sample/bit rate, but most likely it is the A-D converter.
 
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Gillette said:
...
Someone mentioned that it's because 16-Bit, 44.1 kHz thing..
Click to expand...
I hope you didn't misinterpret my posts, i.e., it wasn't me, or maybe it's the drawl I've picked up down here in Texas...

I just said, or tried to say, that since you were looking for phantom power capability 1) you shouldn't be restricted to 16-bits (by simply buying a preamp, for instance, which didn't fix your guitar noise anyway) and 2) a newer Audio Interface with 24-bit capability would likely be quieter than whatever that old chipset (I like the word "compromised") is trying to do.

I'm guessing it's budget or perhaps the complexity of continuing to incorporate the keyboard into your workflow, but honestly, I think it's time to face the music, and upgrade your interface. Anything with direct monitoring will let you use the keyboard with the interface as a preamp for the speakers, in effect. The decsion then becomes whether to get one with an external power supply (4 mic preamps will insure that) so you don't have to turn the computer on, or a 1 or 2 mic unit that runs off bus power.
 
I would recommend a interface from focustrite. best sounding quality interfaces. for as low as 99$ gives common brands like M audio a run for its money in quality.
 
keith.rogers said:
I hope you didn't misinterpret my posts, i.e., it wasn't me, or maybe it's the drawl I've picked up down here in Texas...

I just said, or tried to say, that since you were looking for phantom power capability 1) you shouldn't be restricted to 16-bits (by simply buying a preamp, for instance, which didn't fix your guitar noise anyway) and 2) a newer Audio Interface with 24-bit capability would likely be quieter than whatever that old chipset (I like the word "compromised") is trying to do.

I'm guessing it's budget or perhaps the complexity of continuing to incorporate the keyboard into your workflow, but honestly, I think it's time to face the music, and upgrade your interface. Anything with direct monitoring will let you use the keyboard with the interface as a preamp for the speakers, in effect. The decsion then becomes whether to get one with an external power supply (4 mic preamps will insure that) so you don't have to turn the computer on, or a 1 or 2 mic unit that runs off bus power.
Click to expand...

I sure appreciate your advice Keith, and it make sense to me. I don't mind spending some more money in order to get a decent interface. However I'm more guitar player and don't know much about mixing and stuff. It's just that I want some decent "record at your home like a pro!" sound, which I hope is possible to get close these days. So I'd like to buy a good reliable interface (but then again, I wouldn't want some toy either) so I can invest in some other gear later.

In that respect, it would be helpful to know how to recognize which interface has direct monitoring option?

Is it something I must find in specifications, or there is some recognizable "knob" at the interfaces of that kind, I should look for?

Otherwise, I've seen today some similar keyboard that is new on the market, advertised in the same manner, as once was mine :)

here it is "USB Controller keyboard with integrated audio interface"
IK Multimedia iRig Keys I/O 49 - Thomann UK

This one now has tha phantom power, and basicaly everything I needed, exept for the keys. These ones are not piano like, but anyway..it seems that "all in one solutions" are not gone yet :)
 
Gillette said:
I sure appreciate your advice Keith, and it make sense to me. I don't mind spending some more money in order to get a decent interface. However I'm more guitar player and don't know much about mixing and stuff. It's just that I want some decent "record at your home like a pro!" sound, which I hope is possible to get close these days. So I'd like to buy a good reliable interface (but then again, I wouldn't want some toy either) so I can invest in some other gear later.

In that respect, it would be helpful to know how to recognize which interface has direct monitoring option?

Is it something I must find in specifications, or there is some recognizable "knob" at the interfaces of that kind, I should look for?

Otherwise, I've seen today some similar keyboard that is new on the market, advertised in the same manner, as once was mine :)

here it is "USB Controller keyboard with integrated audio interface"
IK Multimedia iRig Keys I/O 49 - Thomann UK

This one now has tha phantom power, and basicaly everything I needed, exept for the keys. These ones are not piano like, but anyway..it seems that "all in one solutions" are not gone yet :)
Click to expand...
I have a Focusrite interface and like it. They seem popular and reliable. The new Scarlett models seem to have the Direct Monitor switch right on the front, as well as a Inst/Line switch for a 1/4" plug. I record electric guitar through that when not micing the amp, and the preamps are adequate for most microphones on my older Saffire model. You could do worse, IMO, and many of us home recording folks find them good enough, i.e., they are not the reason our recordings don't sound pro...

Long ago, when dinosaurs walked the earth and the gods had not yet created iPods, there was a movement away from the home stereo cabinets to separate components because you could 1) individually select the best component for your budget, and 2) improve the weakest component when you had more money or it failed, without having to replace *everything* because they were all-in-one. I think there was some wisdom in that concept, old and dusty as it might be.
 
A little update :)

Some nice guy from Thomann reccomended Steinberg UR44.

He said that I can use my old midi-conroller-digital piano-audio interface thing, with Steinberg UR44 "If you don't select the M-Audios internal sound card or don't install drivers (if they'd be necessary), there shouldn't be any conlficts".

But M-audio drivers have being installed long ago..(should I deinstall them?)

And he also said "The Steinberg interface even works without the computer, just with its power supply, as some kind of mixer."

Now, I suppose the Steinberg UR44 will be fine..

It 'll be great if someone has a proposal for a similar interface that has the same functions, just to slightly expand my shopping options
 
Gillette said:
A little update :)

Some nice guy from Thomann reccomended Steinberg UR44.

He said that I can use my old midi-conroller-digital piano-audio interface thing, with Steinberg UR44 "If you don't select the M-Audios internal sound card or don't install drivers (if they'd be necessary), there shouldn't be any conlficts".

But M-audio drivers have being installed long ago..(should I deinstall them?)

And he also said "The Steinberg interface even works without the computer, just with its power supply, as some kind of mixer."

Now, I suppose the Steinberg UR44 will be fine..

It 'll be great if someone has a proposal for a similar interface that has the same functions, just to slightly expand my shopping options
Click to expand...
Never used one, but when I read the manual and look at the controls, I don't get the impression it supports direct monitoring (what I believe the sales person is calling "some kind of mixer") without being connected to the computer, unless that's its default mode of operation when not connected. I'd spend some time reading the manual and setup documentation for any device you are considering.

UR44 Updates and Downloads | Steinberg
 
Well Keith, I just don't know what to think anymore .
I asked salesman because at first I wanted to learn how to recognize which interface has that "direct monitoring" option, and nobody at forums seems to know that and what that actually means.

I've even tried to find some websites with audio equipment that have some "search option" so I can choose number of inputs, or midi, or whatever..and no one has "direct monitoring" option so I can (finaly) see all kinds of audio-interfaces that have that, but without any luck.

All I really wanted is to have my keyboard connected to something so I can play it without turnong on computer.
It turned out rocket sience and reading every damn manual to see if some interface has "standalone mode" not even knowing what the standalone mode is.
Then I narrowed my search to interfaces who have power button (hoping that this is correct logic)

Then it turned out that even my current interface doesn't need 9v power and works fine WITHOUT turning on the pc, because it is connected via usb, and SOMEHOW it's sucking power from the pc turned off.

So I figured that the new interfaces must be able to do the same thing, and maybe that same thing is called "standalone" function.

Then again, I saw that Focusrite advertise interfaces in that way so we can see some lady singing in the mic, and with some "magic" there is no any latency. Moreover - she can HEAR ell the effects in the real time while singing !" And I was like.."who is crazy here? I can hear myself singing and playing guitar at the same tame (with effects, in he REAl time) with my long outdated interface, since the day one I bought it. So, was I lucky enough to have that option withput knowing it? Or Focusrite came out with the drivers M-Audio had long ago? I mean, that ad looked as if I would make an advertisement about some new car generation, and somewhere in the middle, proudly say " our team developed button-windows system" so you just push this button and the window's glass goes down. And when you wish to close window again, you just push the button again"..

YouTube

Anyway, I'am tottaly confused right now and I'm seriously thinking about giving up of bloody interface and recording music.

I've lost the tuch with technology, the things went a long way, and it seems to me that people don't understand what I am tallking about expecting something more complicated. But all I really needed is to see some concrete models of gear so I can see what to buy.
(Before I started this I was thinking is it possible to have two interfaces working together, and in my mind I somewhere had some "drivers conflict issue". Now I found at some forum, that lots of people are running two interfaces in the same time, and drivers conflict is an issue that people rarely have anymore ..)

Instead of that I'am getting answers like this "You need to make sure your computer audio interface has a standalone mode so you can route and control levels of audio inputs to outputs without computer control. Usually, the low end inexpensive stuff (e.g. Focusrite Scarlett 2i2) does NOT have this capability. Many mid-to-higher end units do. The interfaces that have standalone modes are usually more expensive (and fully featured)"

Nobody knows to say something liek this" Listen, if you want to buy an interface with standalone mode, that interface should have this kind of button or this number od inputs and you want to have the power switch" (for example)

After reading many topics and forums, I just don't know what to think.
Maybe my keyboard-interface is ok?
Maybe the noise I have with the guitar is common thing with every interface?
Maybe quality preamps and inputs will solve that, but only with more expensive gear?
Maybe even expensive gear have the noise?

All I wanted is to lose that guitar noise, and to connect condenser microphone, hopefuly with the new interface, but..
The more I thing about it the more difficult it becomes..
And english is not even my first language
I'm tired.
 
keith.rogers said:
I don't get the impression it supports direct monitoring (what I believe the sales person is calling "some kind of mixer") without being connected to the computer, unless that's its default mode of operation when not connected.
Click to expand...

here..
Mixing without computer - www.steinberg.net

"Yes, it is possible to use the UR44 in standalone mode.
You can do all the settings with your computer and store it to the unit (including FX).
Obviously there are no controls beside the gain knobs and the output level knobs to modify the setting in standalone mode. So you can just use what you have stored to the unit in advance."

now, is this what I need?
Does this mean that I can connect my keyboard to this Steinberg without powering the PC on? (TS cable frome keyboard to Steinberg analog inputs) and I'll be able to hear it trough monitors?
 
:( - sorry it's gotten a little out of hand here, but don't despair. Take a breath, go for a nice walk.

I've got a question in to Behringer about their U-PHORIA UMC404HD. I think it can economically solve your problem, but let's give them a day or two for a response. It does support direct monitoring via the MIX control on the front, and runs off of its own power supply. It also can take both the MIDI and line level output of your keyboard. Keep your fingers crossed, hold your thumbs, or whatever you do for luck :).
 
Gillette said:
here..
Mixing without computer - www.steinberg.net

"Yes, it is possible to use the UR44 in standalone mode.
You can do all the settings with your computer and store it to the unit (including FX).
Obviously there are no controls beside the gain knobs and the output level knobs to modify the setting in standalone mode. So you can just use what you have stored to the unit in advance."

now, is this what I need?
Does this mean that I can connect my keyboard to this Steinberg without powering the PC on? (TS cable frome keyboard to Steinberg analog inputs) and I'll be able to hear it trough monitors?
Click to expand...
Hmm. It sounds to me like you would need to use the computer to preset routing for standalone mode, and then when you wanted to record, use the computer again to change the routing. I'd find that tedious if that's the case, since you'd have to either always be switching the stored settings, or know for sure when you might want to play the keyboard "standalone" before turning off your computer. (I'm happy to be corrected if I misunderstand that quote.)
 
keith.rogers said:
:( - sorry it's gotten a little out of hand here, but don't despair. Take a breath, go for a nice walk.

I've got a question in to Behringer about their U-PHORIA UMC404HD. I think it can economically solve your problem, but let's give them a day or two for a response. It does support direct monitoring via the MIX control on the front, and runs off of its own power supply. It also can take both the MIDI and line level output of your keyboard. Keep your fingers crossed, hold your thumbs, or whatever you do for luck :).
Click to expand...

Thank you Keith.
Now it isn't economic issue anymore, no it became "can I somehow (and how?) connect my midi-audio-interface-keyboard to anything-issue".
If U-phoria is practically the same thing as Steinberg ur44, I'd radher pick Steinberg instead. And I don't know why :)
 
keith.rogers said:
Hmm. It sounds to me like you would need to use the computer to preset routing for standalone mode, and then when you wanted to record, use the computer again to change the routing. I'd find that tedious if that's the case, since you'd have to either always be switching the stored settings, or know for sure when you might want to play the keyboard "standalone" before turning off your computer. (I'm happy to be corrected if I misunderstand that quote.)
Click to expand...

Yes, I understood it like that too.
First I'd have to tweak some knobs, so I can play piano. Then, I'd have to tweak them again if I want to record it.

Now, if I want to play the piano, I just turn the keyboard On, plug in the headphones or turn on the speakers..and that's it.
If I want to record it, I tun On the computer, Reaper (or Mixcraft, Audacity) and there I can choose channels for direct recording or (if I want to play some vst) I can choose midi.
And besides some noise when using guitar and inability to use condenser microphone, everything works flawlessly.

Now, if I want to solve those two things (the noise and condenser) recommendations are to 1. get new interface with better preamps (I guess they'll reduce the noise) and with phantom power (so I cun run condenser microphone)

And they (my keyboard and the new interface) should work together fine, it's just a matter of how to connect them (both via usb, or just one, TS cable from unablansed to balansed..end so on..)
 
Gillette said:
Thank you Keith.
Now it isn't economic issue anymore, no it became "can I somehow (and how?) connect my midi-audio-interface-keyboard to anything-issue".
If U-phoria is practically the same thing as Steinberg ur44, I'd radher pick Steinberg instead. And I don't know why :)
Click to expand...
They don't look the same to me, since the Behringer has a physical control on the interface to manage direct monitoring while the Steinberg does not.

Some interfaces support direct monitoring but require using the computer software to change routing to enable it. I was trying to see if there's a non-USB-powered interface (i.e., it still can work without needing the computer to be on) that also does not need the computer to be used to let you play the keyboard in a standalone mode.

If you think using the Steinberg software to change it back and forth is a good solution for you, then get that interface!
 
keith.rogers said:
They don't look the same to me, since the Behringer has a physical control on the interface to manage direct monitoring while the Steinberg does not.

Some interfaces support direct monitoring but require using the computer software to change routing to enable it. I was trying to see if there's a non-USB-powered interface (i.e., it still can work without needing the computer to be on) that also does not need the computer to be used to let you play the keyboard in a standalone mode.

If you think using the Steinberg software to change it back and forth is a good solution for you, then get that interface!
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I wanted.
And the guy from thoman said to me it's teh Steinberg.
When I asked to advice me some more models just to have some more buiyng options he said "an alternative would be the Scarlett 18i8:
However, it doesn't feature internal DSP effects. Actually, the Steinberg has a lot less malfunctions, especially regarding the drivers."

So he just added another riddle because I don't know what DSP effects are and most inportant - do I need them at all for just playing piano.
 
Gillette said:
That is exactly what I wanted.
And the guy from thoman said to me it's teh Steinberg.
When I asked to advice me some more models just to have some more buiyng options he said "an alternative would be the Scarlett 18i8:
However, it doesn't feature internal DSP effects. Actually, the Steinberg has a lot less malfunctions, especially regarding the drivers."

So he just added another riddle because I don't know what DSP effects are and most inportant - do I need them at all for just playing piano.
Click to expand...
With all due respect to the guy from Thomann, the manual says you have to use the computer to set the mode and DSPs in the interface, which I infer to mean you need to use the computer to unset them.

Oddly, to me at least, the 18i8 does not have a panel switch/knob to control direct monitoring, while the 2i4 does, but the 2i4 runs on bus power, so you need the computer to be on!

Do you miss those effects when you play your piano in standalone mode today? Do you add effects when you record your piano? (I've never had an interface with built-in effects so can't comment on their usefulness. I either use a pedal in front of the amp, or use FX in the DAW when recording.)

P.S. You might post your specific use case on one of the Steinberg forums and see if there's anyone there who is doing what you want to do, and can explain how they make it work with the interface you are looking at.
 
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