Compression on the way in?

I've read about what used to be called the London sound, the New York sound and the LA sound. They differed in how they tended to use effects and compression. They all sounded good, just different. So it really is just another tool in the box to me. I mean if you have a decent sounding comp and two available tracks, why not record both ways. It really just depends what sound you are going for, as they say , there is no wrong way, there is just what sounds good to you.
 
If it's more important when going to tape? In a sense yes, as compressing before tape doesn't boost the tape hiss and then during mixing parallel comp with some gating going on usually does the trick and still keeping some dynamics.

However if I had to use a DAW I'd probably do the same. Sometimes I run parallel if recording stuff like folk music were a "natural" sound is desired. So a clean track hitting the tape at conversative levels and a hotter and compressed signal.

Cant go wrong doing both, a benefit of unlimited tracking. Then its easy to duplicate and maybe try some ITB too.

Makes sense on the Tape method because theres a real engineering usefullness to automatically ride the faders. Must have been interesting times in studios when the consoles got larger and larger, and there would be no way to have a Fairchild on each channel or even a big old tube compressor for 64 channels! lol

I was reading Geoff Emerick or Glyn Johns book and they didnt care for the new solid state used on the Abbey Road album, it sounds great, but they were comparing from years of using the smaller consoles all tube stuff. Was that 69? and a 8-track tape deck with a 8ch board? 16?

I think George Martins book he mentioned compressing several times, going in...coming out...not sure of the settings or what units they were. But that was mainly EMI with small consoles.

Looking at a SSL4000 huge thing once I noticed each channel had a little solid state compressor....I think compression could be used coming in and going out?

SSL4000 compressor.png
 
I feel like comp before input is best, if not absolutely necessary. I wouldn't record without it. But As mentioned previously, I used fairly transparent settings. Not for a discernable effect.
 
Let's not confuse old school recording with today's recording. When they were going to tape, they wanted the source to be damn near right on the money because going back into tape caused a lot of problems. So, they recorded hotter, tried to get the source as close to the target so that they din't have to process it again since more processing would add more noise.

The early recording guys had to deal with the external analog world and all of the issues that brought with it. Today, processing sound after the fact adds very little negatives.

Not saying don't add compression on the way in if that is what you want, but what they did 40-50 years ago was a totally different world.
 
I have a dumb question then... if I see clipping on my daw screen or plugin screen or on the face of my interface clip led is that referring to clipping the converters?
 
I have a dumb question then... if I see clipping on my daw screen or plugin screen or on the face of my interface clip led is that referring to clipping the converters?
The converters aren't clipping unless you see the light on in the converter is how I'd answer that question.

My working assumption is that those little red lights mean different things depending on where they are, of course. (But, I always avoid them to be sure, honestly.)

But, basically, anywhere there is analog to integral digital conversion going on, you have to assume that they are significant, because it's trying to tell you that something is going to get shaved off the top in that process. How much is shaved, whether it's significantly audible, etc., all are probably going to determine whether any single listener can hear it or be bothered by it.

So, on an analog preamp, maybe not a problem, and who knows, maybe you want it there, but when it hits the interface, if it's not dialed back, and the light goes on there, likely a bad thing.

Within the DAW, if it's using big floating point numbers, it might not mean as much, since it's possible that the floating point data can actually hold those values and not lose data until they're bounced to fixed point, and maybe you'll correct that later. But, that's really dependent on the DAW, and you could certainly validate that with your own easily enough.

In a plugin, I'd guess "it depends" is the best answer, because they might work with the floating point numbers and so you're back to not mattering until you actually bounce to fixed point. But, really, unless you know what goes on inside the plugin software, I don't think there's a universal answer, so if you insist on working with the red lights blazing, the best option is to test with bounces to your final format and look/listen for those flattop haircuts.
 
To me, if I see clipping in the DAW, I take that as bad (I might be wrong, but thinking of the digital concept, 0 means 0). Therefore, going in, as stated, when the converters are clipping, that is not good. Then there is the signal coming into the DAW, for me, once again I am just assuming, if I see the input signal red there, I dial it back, assuming 0 means 0.

I guess in general there are two places for red to be a problem, at the converter signal and then at the DAW input signal. If someone were to say I was wrong, I couldn't argue the point, but that is my assumption.
 
thanks. I was just wondering because I have a clip led on the preamp/interface, then a clip led on the output of the interface vu meters(also copied in the interface software) and then on the Track of the DAW and another clip/red monitor on the Master of the DAW....each plugin has a clip LED thing too.

so just wondering if the tracking with a compressor would really only cover the very first Clip Led, I assume?
 
thanks. I was just wondering because I have a clip led on the preamp/interface, then a clip led on the output of the interface vu meters(also copied in the interface software) and then on the Track of the DAW and another clip/red monitor on the Master of the DAW....each plugin has a clip LED thing too.

so just wondering if the tracking with a compressor would really only cover the very first Clip Led, I assume?

I think depending if the clip is carrying over, you could solve the clipping overall if the signal coming in keeps it in the red. But, once the signal is clipped, even if it doesn't show red, it is clipped. Like recording a bad sound, it is just bad.
 
that makes sense, once clipped its there coming in.....so that kind of supports compression coming in as clip insurance.

especially real consoles bringing in a bunch of activity/sources, clipping insurance protection.
for single solo HR it might not be so hard to keep an eye on the clipping of one mic. if its invisible insurance why not ?

im leaning to have it on there but dont spend much on it because its invisible.
 
To me, since you can add gain in the digital world without adding noise (negligible at least), you can leave plenty of head room and avoid clipping. If you need more gain in the DAW, just push it up.

But one thing to note, sometimes analog compression gives a distinct sound. Then all bets are off :) It has been said here often, get the source right, then the mixing is that much easier.
 
Yes I agree about compressing on the way in. I have been using my distressor for 20+ years and never had somone tell me there
was too much compression on the vocals. However before the distressor I used a dbx 161 and I had to be more carful with it.
 
I add a little compression to everything on the way in. I like the way it sounds and prefer, as much as possible, to minimize the processing ITB. Every track is going to get some compression anyway, so I add the first dollop on the way in. Often, that's all I'll need anyway. I don't care about flexibility. I'm recording my own music and know in advance the sound I'm going for. I prefer to commit early rather than piling up decisions for later in the process.
 
If I use compression on the way in or not depends on the singer. When he/she has a wide dynamic range (silent-loud), I need a compressor to get it under control to record a decent track without distortion on the AD conversion on the interface. So it depends. In my recording chain I have some decent headroom, but sometimes you have to record someone with such a strong voice, that it has to be compressed a little before entering the AD converter. Then I use compression on the way in. Else only while mixing. And during mixing, depending on the channel, I can choose from VST compression or hardware compression through the inserts of my console.
 
Compression going in is usually meant (in digital captures) to add a vibe or to keep a heavily dynamic singer from giving the track a huge swing in input levels. That being said you should have a piece of gear that add's something to the track. Doing nothing is just that...nothing and probably is raising the noise floor. In my world I will compress on the way in as needed and it's not specific to a particular instrument. In most cases I'm looking at getting the basic track to sit in the mix as early as possible. Less work on the mix side and gives a point of reference to blend things to.

I do use compressors at mix. Sometimes they are a reroute back through the hardware and printing a new track and sometimes a plug-in with specific characteristics to enhance and solidify a performance.

I do find that the better the track is captured the less of everything I use at mix. Keeping the DSP load to minimum allows a mixer to concentrate more on the balance and soundfield rather than repairing something captured at tracking.

Addressing the led overload lights. In most plug-ins, mixers, and in general all digital systems, a red light is somewhere between 12-15 db before actual clipping. Kind of a warning of a possible impending disaster rather than tell you it's already happened. The ears are usually the best device to picking out a clip. A digital clip especially at the conversion is relatively easy to hear. The harshness is unmistakable.

One thing I am finding over these last few years is this: MOST if not all of the plug-ins I'm using are emulations of the hardware I already have as well as the classic circuits that have survived from the infancy of this recording business. There was always something "musical" in those original pieces that still translates to musical musings of today.
 
i was just comparing my interface pre;s to my rane pres and they both sound bland without the LA2A plug. ymmv
 
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