Capturing a better lead/overdriven guitar sound: clear condenser mic vs shure 57

T

toneranger

New member
Hi All,

I know that the sm57 is the industry standard and apparently many greats have all used it. But I just don't like what my ears are hearing: even with the mic off axis and away from the speaker to roll of the highs, it just doesn't seem to capture the fullness of the sound, but rather sounds "boxed in" and overly compressed.

I was playing around with an MXL condenser mic today and noticed that it came closer to capturing a fuller guitar tone, the only problem is that the sound is too muddy and reverb laden from the room. I tried EQing the muddiness out in the DAW but didn't quite work.

You know that sound you get when you use to record guitar using your iPhone and with a cranked amp? Comes out pretty clear right? Ironically I've found that some of the sounds I've gotten simply recording with my phone have been more faithful to what my ears are hearing.

How can I replicate that clarity with a mic? Is there an affordable better condenser mic out there?

Thanks much,
- TR
 
Use the iPhone?

It sounds like you're trying to capture your room tone but finding it isn't working in your mix. Is that right? You ought to be able to get good results from either of those mics. You don't need to spend more money. First question: How are you monitoring? Are you in the room with the amp, monitoring on headphones? If so, you cannot hear the tone you are tracking while you are tracking it. It depends on tracking, listening to the track, adjusting mic position and settings, re-tracking and so on until it sounds good. A more efficient way is to get the speaker out of the room and track to your studio monitors (do you have those?).

What sounds good in the room isn't a good guide to what the mic is picking up, and isn't necessarily what sounds best in a mix. That SM57 sounded boxy to you. Did you listen to it in the mix? That focused midrange you get from that mic may be what helps it cut through. The condenser sounded muddy and roomy? Are you putting a track with a lot of ambiance into a busy mix? If so, it'll get washed out. It's best to track drier.

If you are new to miking guitars, it takes a while to get the hang of it, where you can efficiently track the sounds you're hearing in your mind. I'd be happy to give suggestions. There is a guitar tone thread in the Guitars and Basses forum here:

The Guitar Tone and Mix Thread
 
Last edited:
Use both mics and blend them?

However if you can't get a usable sound from an SM57 there is something else wrong. If you are getting a boxy sound is it that the amp actually has a boxy sound, stick your ear where the mic is and see what it sounds like there. Typically if the mic is facing into the speaker, placing it in the middle of the speaker picks up more top end and facing it at the speaker edge picks up more lows, so by moving it across the face you can change the sound to suit.

Alan.
 
toneranger said:
Is there an affordable better condenser mic out there?

Thanks much,
- TR
Click to expand...

What do you consider to be affordable? I have a couple Rode mics that I love for various things. Pair of M5's go for $200 (they're small pencil condensers, but they still work good). Also have a pair of NT1A's (that, funny enough, I bought for $200 used. New, they go for around $200 each I think) that sound amazing to me. Though, to be perfectly fair, I only use those for recording acoustics, drums, and vocals. I have an Axe FX that I use for electric guitar work.

As others have said though, I would recommend recording both the SM57 and your MXL and try blending them and see how that works for you.
 
Guitar Amp Recording |

^ Probably THE most comprehensive dissertation on recording the electric guitar? The mic can only grab 'what it hears' so, as others have said, the basic sound is 'off' in some way. Try listening on closed back cans and get somebody else to move the mic around. Better get another widdler and YOU move the mic whilst canned up. Re-amp?

One problem with an LDC might be overload when on the cab fret (which it often needs to be) especially with a cheaper mic. My £150 Sontronics has a 20dB pad, look for capacitors with that. You might find an AKG Perception 170 SDC and they have 20dB switches and an ultimate overload point (1%thd) of 155dB SPL. Think NASA!

Dave.
 
Thanks everyone for the thoughts and links.

I like the sound I get when I listen to my "live" tone in the room, usually a few feet to the left of the amp. Pretty happy with the tone, so it's a question of: how I capture that tone my ears are hearing. I can indeed get a "usable" sound with a sm57 but it's unfortunately not quite there to my liking, and too "small" sounding if that makes sense. I think my ears are begging for something wider.

Allan Holdsworth, who got some of the best overdriven sounds of all time, apparently used a Neumann to track his leads. Makes complete sense to me, wide diaphragm, clear sound. More importantly, it picked up what he was hearing. So I think I'm going to eschew conventional wisdom (and the sm57) here and try and make something happen with a decent vocal mic. Will be back if I can make it work.
 
Probably should have added this to my earlier post:

I get a "truer" sound to my ears when I use a camcorder internal mic with my amp cranked than I do with a sm57 on/off axis. Anyone hearing me out on this?
 
Last edited:
Phones and camera mics have internal software that both compress and equalize input in order to increase intelligibility. While I have used phones to capture an idea, I find I get too much of a flanged sound. As you have realized, different mics will give you different tones which is why we all end up trying different ones until we find something we like. That being said, using a 57 usually for me means eq'ing. For your particular tonal desires you might try compressing and eq'ing on the way in as well as tweaking after recording until you find the right mic combination
 
I'm also not the biggest fan of SM57 on electric guitar but they definitely have their uses and every now and then they can sound excellent. But one of the reasons for their popularity is also that they tend to blend well with other mics. Don't ditch your 57 just yet, try it with a condenser and blend to taste. If you end up with something phasey you can pan them hard left and right - or obviously look into finding a non-phasey sound with "correct" mic placement.

Personally I love the Beyerdynamic M201 for anything I'd otherwise use a 57 for except vocals for whatever reason. It's a bit more pricey but kicks ass. There's also a Revox branded version of the M201 called Revox M3500. The same mic though with different impedance. Never tried a Revox "201" myself but no one seems to hear any difference or at least not for the worse.
MD421 also sounds great on electric guitar and as a bonus lovely on many voices.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top