Can Clicks kill the life in a recording ?

grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
Do you think there is any truth in the assertion that many make, that using a click in recording kills the life or feeling of that recording ? What about in live performance ?
Is it sterile or robotic to have absolute perfect timing with none of the speeding up or slowing down a drummer may bring ?
For those that don't use clicks, are there circumstances in which you feel they would be good for you ?
And for those that use them regularly, can you see any occasions where not using one would be a good thing ?
Does a band recording together need to use a click ?
 
IMO, it depends on the genre. A prog song might be better off being exactly on time, while a slow blues song/jam might be better off having a bit of tempo variation here and there whenever it needs it. Another thing is pieces that need a specific timing due to use of delay effects boxes.

For editing purposes a click track often makes life a lot easier in a recording situation.
 
"Classical" musicians train with metronomes but I don't think you could call Kennedy or Bream "robotic" or lacking in passion?!

I would have thought the most basic skill a drummer (or bass player) could have is to keep time?

Dave.
 
I don't use clicks, but I use some sort of MIDI drum track. It just makes the recording process easier when have to make edits and add other MIDI instruments and effects.
 
grimtraveller said:
I should clarify that 'click' is just a generic catch all term for any kind of mechanical time keeping device, be it drum machine or metronome or whatever.
Click to expand...

I figured that, just being clear. Plus, I really can't do the bink, bunk, bunk, bunk, bink ...
 
The Rolling Stones' "Waiting on a Friend" starts at about 110bpm and ends up at around 118bpm. Most of that tempo change takes pace early in the song. I'm not convinced that it is a very musical increase in tempo. More like they start playing at one tempo, but didn't latch onto a groove until later in the song. In fact, the song would have had quite a different feel had they kept to the slower tempo throughout. In my view, this recording is sloppy, and feels like a throw-away song.

A click track can help keep adrenalin under control; the natural tendency to want to speed up when you get excited when recording. A click track does not need to detract from the life of a recording. Most competent performers can generate excitement within a click-tracked performance. And certainly, a rigid tempo makes editing very easy.

Having said that, sometimes it is critical to a song to have tempo changes. "The best is yet to come", a track by Clifford T Ward*, would not sound right if it had a regulated tempo.

When recording I use a mixture of both. Some performances are recorded with a click, and others not. It depends on the material and the preferred method of recording. "Live in the studio" is often best done without a click. "Track by track" is often better with a click.

Two points: a 'click' for me is either a metronome or a drum loop. A click track is often set to a predetermined BPM, but it's not uncommon for a click track to have built in tempo changes.

* You need to go back to 1970 for his songs.
 
I think though, there is a difference between tempo change and tempo drift, which is really why one would want a click to avoid drifting.
 
DM60 said:
I think though, there is a difference between tempo change and tempo drift, which is really why one would want a click to avoid drifting.
Click to expand...

Yup.

tempo change = a deliberate change that has a musical reason
tempo drift = an unplanned change that has no musical value
 
Having recently played with a drummer who thought his timing was 'perfect', I'd recommend clicktracks for anyone who needs to keep tempo correctly. Its a definite adenaline thing, even if you are well experieenced in playing live.
That drummer - who insisted he did everything at the right speed - played everything at about 1755 when we did a video shoot, there was no denying the speed then. And he refused to use a click during practice or live as we suggested. One of the reasons the lead singer eventually quit. Taking 2:30 minute Beatles songs and making them 2 minutes long just didn't work.
And live - if there are ANY backing tracks at all, obviously a click is necessary.
 
mjbphotos said:
if there are ANY backing tracks at all, obviously a click is necessary.
Click to expand...
This is a big one for sure!

If you rely on samples or loops for some of the backgrounds, and your drummer can't play the consistent tempo, then it sounds like garbage. The flavour of the groove comes from the rhythm and timing that the players are using on their instruments. Maybe hitting early or late, or off beat even, but still in tempo.

I also find personally, that without a steady tempo, the song starts to make me feel uneasy while listening to it. It is just so painfully obvious that it becomes a distraction.
 
Two simple truths.....

1.) If you are a solo musician and/or you will be recording multiple individual tracks....you need to use a click.

2.) If you are a band and you plan to lay down at least a bunch of multiple simultaneous rhythm tracks and you plan to do overdubs, but you guys are not as tight as a Swiss watch in your multiplayer timing....you need to use a click.

Can you record without it as a solo musician, doing individual track....sure, and it will be loose and sloppy.
Can a band record and get away with simultaneously drifting together...sure, and it will be loose and sloppy.

Playing live is one thing.....it happens and then it's over.
Recording is a documentation of your performance(s) that can be heard over and over and over....so you can decide how much drift/slop you want to permanently include in the recording.
I agree that many people will not notice a song going from 110 to 118 BPM...but it will be noticeable to some people, and certainly to any decent musician that can tap his foot in time.
If you can play while tapping your foot in time….you can play to a click. If you can’t do that, then your timing will drift…and that has nothing to do with “human feel” or whatever other excuse people use when they can’t keep time.
 
I'm a fan of click tracks - But I'm a fan of live instrumentation (including the drummer, of course). The "human element" when he's playing ahead of or behind the click can do wonderful things for the energy of the tune...
 
Massive Master said:
I'm a fan of click tracks - But I'm a fan of live instrumentation (including the drummer, of course). The "human element" when he's playing ahead of or behind the click can do wonderful things for the energy of the tune...
Click to expand...

Yeah...and that's the thing, you can have that "human element" while playing to a click....you CAN play ahead/behind it.
The people who say you can't do that with a click...arte simply not able to hold time to begin with.

You need to know where the beat is in order to know if you are playing ahead or behind it....and the click is the reference beat.
 
What I do is this... I am a singer-songwriter who generally writes and performs every part except drums. When I use a click and the drummer comes in after to play over my part, it doesn't work. If he memorizes the song and lays down the drum track, then I play over, it doesn't work. Doing it in one small room makes this an impossible situation...unless...

What you do (or what I do, I guess) is run your headphones from an amp to the drummer, using an electric, or whatever plugs in. Then you run all the drum mics in to the board, but not the amp, and guitar player monitors the drummer through headphones. You work it out until the groove and timing are on point, then you do it again with the headphones on.

Once your set, hit record and start playing together. Once everyone is happy with it, you should have an on time drum/click track that's also groovy. Now as the guitar player you can go back in and lay down a perfectly groovy and well timed track that is also isolated from the drums.

You get perfectly usable drum tracks, that are the real deal, that also function as a tailor made click track. No bleed, no hassles. Then you can just overdub everything afterwards, or go live.

This works especially well for the analog guys.
 
Roozter said:
When I use a click and the drummer comes in after to play over my part, it doesn't work. If he memorizes the song and lays down the drum track, then I play over, it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

How do you mean "it doesn't work"...?

When I work with my drummer....I first lay down a scratch guitar/vocal tracks to a click.
Then he plays his drums to the guitar/vocal & click track.
After that, I record all the keeper tracks while listening to his drums and the scratch/vocal tracks, plus the click.
When I record a couple of keeper guitar/bass/piano tracks...I delete the scratch guitar, bu still keep the scratch vocal, plus the click.
The click stays all the way through....how loud I play it in the headphones VS the drum track is personal taste, but usually asfter the drums are down, I turn the click very low and panned off to one side, as I still use the click for the count-in and if there are maybe breaks int he song, etc....but at that point I'm moslty litening to the drum track.


That's as simple as it gets....works every time.
 
Always use a click. If the track sounds robotic, you are missing the point of the click. You need to play with the click, not to it. Just like in a band situation, if there is a guy keepine time with a cowbell, you play your part with him and it sounds great. It should be the same with any metronome.

At first, it is a bit jarring when your tempo drifts and the click doesn't follow you, but you need to listen and learn to react to it instead of trying to lead it. It is the same as playing to a livedrummer that can't hear you.

If the song needs tempo changes, just tempo map the song.
 
PLEASE LET ME ADD AN IMPORTANT NOTE TO THOSE WHO USE CLICK TRACKS as this is something that comes up terribly often during mastering sessions.

And should come up during mixing sessions, but some people don't monitor at decent levels.

And should be handled during tracking.

[PROTIP] Turn the damn thing off at the end of the tune. Once you know how long the tune is, RECORD the click track and STOP it.

There are SO many recordings that come in with the click perfectly audible coming through the drummer's cans or the vocalist's, or the guitarist's, etc. No reason for that.

Have a lead in and a "beep" or something on the last count so the drummer knows when to start, measure it out and end it so that click doesn't continue over the natural decay of everything else.
 
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