Best set up for guitar/mandolin and vocal

T

tvolhein

Tom Volhein
I need to find out the best way to set up microphones for simultaneously recording voice and instruments. I have been using a KSM44 for the vocal and a Rode NT5 for the instrument and placing the instrument mic about 15" away from the instrument and having the musician sing about 6" away from the vocal mic.

I am having a devil of a time getting any isolation. Right now, for the mandolin player, I am getting more mandolin in the vocal mic than in the instrument mic.

Is there any way to get better isolation?

Thanks in advance,

Tom
 
I don't think you can get separation. That mandolin is going to cut through not mater what. Best you can do is play the instrument softer so it doesn't come into the vocal mic as much. Any acoustical instrument and vocals will have this problem. Play softer, mic the mandolin and bring it up in the mix.

Maybe others may have a cure, but I can't imagine.
 
You could try dynamic mics and close-miking, but true isolation/separation will come from tracking parts separately.
 
What about switching the mics? If you are getting more mandolin in the KSM44, then give the KSM44 to the mandolin and sing into the Rode NT5. I don't think you would dislike the result
 
The trick here is to have figure8 mic patterns. I record an album every year with an artist that can only really perform live playing mandolin, banjo or guitar while singing. I use a ribbon (fig8) on both the vocals and instruments. The separation is very good. The ribbon is also a good choice for mandolin.

If you don't have ribbons see if you can get hold of a condenser with a fig8 option.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
The trick here is to have figure8 mic patterns. I record an album every year with an artist that can only really perform live playing mandolin, banjo or guitar while singing. I use a ribbon (fig8) on both the vocals and instruments. The separation is very good. The ribbon is also a good choice for mandolin.

If you don't have ribbons see if you can get hold of a condenser with a fig8 option.

Alan.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to visualize fig 8 mic placement on the instrument and singer, and can't come up with it.

If the F8 vocal mic is facing the singer, the nulls would be at the sides of the mic, and it seems it would still pick up plenty of guitar. Same with a F8 on the bridge or neck. The nulls would be at the sides picking up plenty of vox.

Please describe mic positioning, so that I understand this technique
 
You could use two SM57s. They'll isolate like no other but they might also alter the sound of your instrument quite a lot.
 
Muddy T-Bone said:
I'm trying to visualize fig 8 mic placement on the instrument and singer, and can't come up with it.

If the F8 vocal mic is facing the singer, the nulls would be at the sides of the mic, and it seems it would still pick up plenty of guitar. Same with a F8 on the bridge or neck. The nulls would be at the sides picking up plenty of vox.

Please describe mic positioning, so that I understand this technique
Click to expand...

Thats right, the nulls are at the sides, but also the top and bottom. So if you have one on the guitar the singers mouth is in the null above the guitar mic. When you put the mic in front of the singers mouth the guitar is in the null below the voc mic.

Take it from me, it works.

Alan.

P,S: Here is an article on mic patterns that says exactly what I was saying.
 
witzendoz said:
Thats right, the nulls are at the sides, but also the top and bottom. So if you have one on the guitar the singers mouth is in the null above the guitar mic. When you put the mic in front of the singers mouth the guitar is in the null below the voc mic.

Take it from me, it works.

Alan.

P,S: Here is an article on mic patterns that says exactly what I was saying.
Click to expand...


Very good, thanks. I always thought that F8's had the null on the horizontal plane only. Didn't realize it's one the vertical plane as well. Which does actually make sense.

I have 2 F8's, I can't wait to try this. They are not ribbons, but LDC's.
 
Well, we are winding up re-tracking the vocal to eliminate the mandolin leaking in. For the rest of the songs, we won't track the mandolin with the singer, we will track it after. Lesson learned.

tom
 
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