Any secrets to DI-ing Bass?

[Tadpui]

Thanks guys, so cranking the gain more and rolling back the tone on the bass have helped the most. For some reason I had it backwards and thought cranking the gain would distort things so I was cranking the output more. What I found is cranking the output gives a cleaner/brighter and more "flabby" sound, to my ears at least. Cranking the gain gives a slightly dirty, rounder sound, especially with the tone down like 50%. It's less "flabby" but still sounds a little flabby, but the tone is much better. By flabby it's almost like the note falls apart instead of remains tight. I wonder if this is strings or the pickups...I know the MIM don't have the best pickups, but not sure if it's worth sinking $70 into upgrading them when the sound is like 90% where I want it.

I think that you're on the right track, and that's a pretty stellar preamp. Since it's patterned after the gold standard Neve 1073, it should be able to give you nice fat low end and a smooth and detailed high end. And like you've discovered, giving it some input gain will help fatten it up. You might try turning up the input gain until it just starts to distort on the louder notes, then dial it back a bit from there. Then adjust the output so it gives you the desired signal strength on your interface/DAW.

I've been lusting after a BAE 1073 for a while now. I found a used one at a great price, but it's still in a different league of expense. That's a lot of money for a guy like me, just some schlub in his basement. But I waaaaant one

 

[Nola]

One more question regarding bass recording in general (i'm not a bassist, i just pretend to be one on my recordings): if I hit a note too low in volume, what is the best approach to fix that? Should I just slice around it and then raise the level of that note and hope the noise floor is fine? Does compression even low notes out by raising them? Should I punch in?

I guess it depends how low the note is. Well I really flubbed this one and it's barely audible.

 

[jimmys69]

One more question regarding bass recording in general (i'm not a bassist, i just pretend to be one on my recordings): if I hit a note too low, what is the best approach to fix that? Should I just slice around it and then raise the level of that note and hope the noise floor is fine? Does compression even low notes out by raising them? Should I punch in?

I guess it depends how low the note is. Well I really flubbed this one and it's barely audible.

Obviously punching in a bad note would be ideal. If you happened to pass in a tragic car accident and someone posted your track, it could be pitch shifted...Oh, you mean the level of the note? Just manually adjust the gain level.

Let's hope that tragic thing doesn't happen k?

 

[Nola]

I think that you're on the right track, and that's a pretty stellar preamp. Since it's patterned after the gold standard Neve 1073, it should be able to give you nice fat low end and a smooth and detailed high end. And like you've discovered, giving it some input gain will help fatten it up. You might try turning up the input gain until it just starts to distort on the louder notes, then dial it back a bit from there. Then adjust the output so it gives you the desired signal strength on your interface/DAW.

I've been lusting after a BAE 1073 for a while now. I found a used one at a great price, but it's still in a different league of expense. That's a lot of money for a guy like me, just some schlub in his basement. But I waaaaant one

Cool thanks for the encouragement.
It's a lot of money for me, too, but on the used market they're close to half price (~40%) if you look hard and are patient. I looked at that BAE and thought it looked good, but it seemed harder to find BAE's used. Why are you set on that one? Api and Neve clone? I get that. I don't have api and don't want to commit to it, so I was specifically looking for something else.

This Great River sounds so interesting. It's like a mix of modern and classic. It can do either or a mix of both, imo. Since I have a foot in each door in liking classic and modern sounds it's perfect. I kind of want to get something really dirty and old school like a UA 610 to complement it.

 

[Tadpui]

One more question regarding bass recording in general (i'm not a bassist, i just pretend to be one on my recordings): if I hit a note too low, what is the best approach to fix that? Should I just slice around it and then raise the level of that note and hope the noise floor is fine? Does compression even low notes out by raising them? Should I punch in?

I guess it depends how low the note is. Well I really flubbed this one and it's barely audible.

I'd say just punch in on that one section so you can get it right. Compression will help a little, but if you're using enough compression that it would even out a super-quiet note, then you'd probably be using way too much compression

Personally, I love compression on bass. I tend to squash it pretty good, probably more than most people like to use. But I'm a pretty crappy bassist, and I have a really good compressor. So I'm prone to overusing it.

 

[Tadpui]

Cool thanks for the encouragement.
It's a lot of money for me, too, but on the used market they're close to half price (~40%) if you look hard and are patient. I looked at that BAE and thought it looked good, but it seemed harder to find BAE's used. Why are you set on that one? Api and Neve clone? I get that. I don't have api and don't want to commit to it, so I was specifically looking for something else.

This Great River sounds so interesting. It's like a mix of modern and classic. It can do either or a mix of both, imo. Since I have a foot in each door in liking classic and modern sounds it's perfect. I kind of want to get something really dirty and old school like a UA 610 to compliment it.

I'm set on the BAE because it's really the truest recreation of the original 1073. Same input/output transformers, and I've heard them several times on Warren Huart's YouTube channel. Anything he sends through that thing is just gold. I'm so close to pulling the trigger on this used one, but I just paid for a bathroom renovation and wood floors for the house, so I'm feeling pretty broke. Hopefully the used one in the listing I'm watching will survive a while longer. Either that, or I'll be using a beautiful sounding BAE from my new home: a cardboard box under a bridge.

 

[Nola]

Something else I noticed interesting: when I had the output turned up high, my bass had this low level static sound. Almost like it was an antenna picking up some frequency/hiss. Then as I turn the gain up and output down, that is all gone, and it's quiet as a mouse.

I'm sure this isn't interesting to seasoned engineers b/c there's probably some obvious reason, but for a self-taught dope like me it was interesting. If anyone has hiss and comes across this thread try playing with the gain structure.

 

[Nola]

I'm set on the BAE because it's really the truest recreation of the original 1073. Same input/output transformers, and I've heard them several times on Warren Huart's YouTube channel. Anything he sends through that thing is just gold. I'm so close to pulling the trigger on this used one, but I just paid for a bathroom renovation and wood floors for the house, so I'm feeling pretty broke. Hopefully the used one in the listing I'm watching will survive a while longer. Either that, or I'll be using a beautiful sounding BAE from my new home: a cardboard box under a bridge.

Pull the trigger, Tadpui, life is too short.
That's what I told myself at least, and no regret buying this preamp. If you have paypal they let you finance things over 6 months so you don't feel the pain as bad.

 

[Nola]

Wow, this sounds so good now.
I love you guys. I love this preamp.
I'm not a gearhead at all but when things click and sound how you want it's such a great feeling.

 

[miroslav]

Something else I noticed interesting: when I had the output turned up high, my bass had this low level static sound. Almost like it was an antenna picking up some frequency/hiss. Then as I turn the gain up and output down, that is all gone, and it's quiet as a mouse.

Because with the output cranked...you were pulling up everything else along with the weak input signal.

Yeah...fist find the level and sound with the input gain...then just set the output where you needed.
You certainly can turn up the output and lower the gain, there are a few sweet spots you can dial in with the input and output, each one having it's own character...but generally, you don't want a weak input signal and then need lots of output level to make up for it.

AFA the flubbed note...either punch it in or just edit in the same note from another section of the song once you have it recorded.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I suppose a guitar amp is an accessible comparison.
Master volume dimed and channel volume at a very low setting vs a healthy balance or the exact opposite.
The results are going to be similar, I think.

 

[Nola]

Because with the output cranked...you were pulling up everything else along with the weak input signal.

Yeah exactly, I should have known this, but for some reason when I'm knee deep in recording logic goes out the window.
I'm kind of embarrassed now that I realize what's going on.

 

[ido1957]

It's all DI for me, no amp sim. Always through a compressor going in. The compressor fattens the tone up quite a bit. No reverb. If your bass is sounding flabby, play with the lows and low mids. Try the tone control on your bass too. I don't record with a P bass much, but I've had luck sometimes rolling the tone knob back, or even all the way off.

One thing to consider - A great deal of the definition in a bass guitar comes from upper frequencies. I would not recommend turning all the highs off unless you are sure you want that sound. If the frequencies are not recorded there's no way to recover them during mixing.

 

[chuckduffy]

i kind of like classic bass sounds from motown or classic rock albums (entwistle, jp jones, VU/Cale, etc)

Most Motown stuff was DI, fwiw. A MIM P-bass, direct, overdriven a little with big flatwounds will get you most of the way there. I found flatwounds really bothersome to play at first but ended up loving them. Also try slow attack when you compress so the initial pluck comes through, that is a big part of it.

 

[Robus]

One thing to consider - A great deal of the definition in a bass guitar comes from upper frequencies. I would not recommend turning all the highs off unless you are sure you want that sound. If the frequencies are not recorded there's no way to recover them during mixing.

Good point. I wouldn't do it on everything, but once it a while it works. Turning the tone knob down a bit seems to work better with a P bass. I never do it with a Jazz. I should add I'm using flatwounds.

 

[miroslav]

Most Motown stuff was DI, fwiw. A MIM P-bass, direct, overdriven a little with big flatwounds will get you most of the way there. I found flatwounds really bothersome to play at first but ended up loving them. Also try slow attack when you compress so the initial pluck comes through, that is a big part of it.

Yes...my bass sound was always influenced by those Motown bass sound...big and fat.
I've been playing with flatwounds on my main bass for ages...and I use a fatter gauge, as I really like that low-end thump....and even when I'm using the limiter, it's very light, just to catch some of the tops of the excessive peaks, but never to compress hard and then raise the level. That way even with the low-end thump, there is still definition in the attack.

I've got a second bass with lighter gauge roundwounds...but that's been used maybe a handful of times over the last several years.
My main bass is an Ibanez Blazer bass from the late '70s, and basically it was a P-bass knockoff.
It sound great with the flatwounds.

This is isn't mine....but it's just like this one.

 

[Robus]

Cool bass Miro.

 

[Robus]

Most Motown stuff was DI, fwiw. A MIM P-bass, direct, overdriven a little with big flatwounds will get you most of the way there. I found flatwounds really bothersome to play at first but ended up loving them. Also try slow attack when you compress so the initial pluck comes through, that is a big part of it.

Great advice.

 

[andrushkiwt]

While we're showing off basses! Also, not my pic...google search image. same thing though.

Spent a lot of time working the bass sound for a newer track last night. My goal was to avoid using an EQ plug and dial in the sound ONLY with the amp head and mic position. I did need a HP filter though. I found I didn't like the ultra hi and ultra low options on the SVT Pro - too boomy and twangy. I'm guessing that's more for live sound than recorded (amplitube, not the real svt)

 

[bouldersoundguy]

We've been recording bass direct for decades. Currently our bass player uses an Ampeg SCR-DI, which sounds pretty good. Before that it was a Tech 21 Bass Driver Deluxe, and before that it was a Countryman Type 85 and Ampeg SVX. At one point we experimented with the instrument input of the Drawmer 1960 but didn't like it. I think somewhere in the distant past there was an ART Nightbass SGX. Mostly the source has been a Carvin bass, but others include a Fender Jazz, a Clevinger and a double bass.