Another Compressor Question

Nola

Nola

Well-known member
Say I want to record bass guitar and compress a little so the notes are more even. I don't have a compression pedal or a hardware compressor, so if i use a vst on the bass' track, does that compress the signal in the same way an outboard compressor or a pedal would?

Also, say I record the bass without compression and then add compression later. Does that have the same effect as if recording with compression on in the first place?

Thanks.
 
Some things do sound different with compression before or after them. On guitar I like a compressor ahead of the distortion, so the sustain stays distorted. If you compress after distortion you still have sustain but the distortion tapers off earlier. Reverbs also react differently.

If your bass tone doesn't change much with level then compressing after the fact should be about the same.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Some things do sound different with compression before or after them. On guitar I like a compressor ahead of the distortion, so the sustain stays distorted. If you compress after distortion you still have sustain but the distortion tapers off earlier. Reverbs also react differently.

If your bass tone doesn't change much with level then compressing after the fact should be about the same.
Click to expand...

Thanks boulder. Is there any way to simulate what a pedal would do (i.e. compress before the mic picks it up) using a vst? I don't think so...but I want to make sure.
So with a VST, you're really just leveling volume of the fully dynamic track. What if you setup the compressor vst as an FX track and did pre-fader?
What I'm trying to tame are some loud attacks/notes. For some reason when doing compression after the fact it's not taming them like I'd hope. You can still hear the attack being too loud, but the compressor just reduces the volume of that loud attack rather than reducing the attack itself. If that makes sense.
 
Keep in mind that with bass notes, your room is likely a big source of some notes sounding louder/softer than others. Heck, just as an experiment, compress the holy living crap out of it, turn up the makeup gain so it's consistently loud, and walk around the room to hear the differences in which notes jump out. It's amazing how many peaks and valleys there are in the bass frequencies in a room.

The compressor's attack setting will be very helpful if you're wanting to get rid of pick attack. A fast attack will clamp down on those, but it'll also sound more obviously compressed. That may be what you want, it may not.
 
i should mention the bass is a DI recording no room involved. But i'm not really a bass player, so i'm playing it with a pick and the attack is bothering me. when i put compression on it, the volume evens out on the track, but the attacks still sound too loud. So it's almost like if you use compression as vst, you can't ever get rid of the timber of the attack, just reduce the volume of it. to get rid of the timber of the attack, you have to have an outboard compressor or a pedal. is that accurate?
 
The thing that sets a good bass player apart from a guitar player that 'plays' bass is technique.

A good bass player self- compresses with his control of the dynamics, how he hits the notes. This dynamic touch is different from string to string as well as position on the neck.

A good excersise is to 'play to the meter', as in VU meter.

Try to vary your picking attack to keep the meter relatively steady.

It's a bit tough at first but the more you practice and master a steady meter, the better you'll get.
 
Nola said:
i should mention the bass is a DI recording no room involved. But i'm not really a bass player, so i'm playing it with a pick and the attack is bothering me. when i put compression on it, the volume evens out on the track, but the attacks still sound too loud. So it's almost like if you use compression as vst, you can't ever get rid of the timber of the attack, just reduce the volume of it. to get rid of the timber of the attack, you have to have an outboard compressor or a pedal. is that accurate?
Click to expand...

Are you listening on headphones or speakers? Playing back on speakers is what I was referring to.

Shorten the attack on your compressor, see if it'll get fast enough to tame the pick attack. Software compressors are totally capable of very good quality compression. Whichever compressor you're using just may not be suited to what you're wanting it to do. There are a ton of them out there. Maybe the fastest attack on yours isn't fast enough to catch the transients you're trying to tame. Maybe try something patterned after an LA-2A. That should have some pretty darn quick attack times. Some of Bootsy's plugins from Variety Of Sound are fashioned after the classic LA2A design. Might be worth a try.

But in the vein of what RFR was talking about, if the bass track has that big of dynamic swing, maybe it'd be worth changing tactics, rehearsing the part several more times, then trying to track it again. At some point the band aids start to weigh more than the limb itself.
 
RFR said:
The thing that sets a good bass player apart from a guitar player that 'plays' bass is technique.

A good bass player self- compresses with his control of the dynamics, how he hits the notes. This dynamic touch is different from string to string as well as position on the neck.

A good excersise is to 'play to the meter', as in VU meter.

Try to vary your picking attack to keep the meter relatively steady.

It's a bit tough at first but the more you practice and master a steady meter, the better you'll get.
Click to expand...

Good advice. Some things you can do right off the bat are to (1) relax your right hand.. pluck gently and don't whack the string too hard. (2) Do your picking far from the bridge, like near the top of the neck (15-17 fret) where the string has more play. And (3) if possible use a rounded corner of the pick and not the pointy corner. Compression's great on bass but it's just not optimum for eliminating stuff like excess pick attack.
 
Look into felt picks...just a suggestion. Some hate them, others love them.

I am your opposite. I play bass with fingers and have a hard time playing a guitar with a pick...I still put the pick down most of the time and strum with my nail and my guitar solos are usually done with a three finger technique I developed on the bass :eek:
My problem is with stuff that SHOULD be done with a pick. I have to overdub pick slides or (if I ever wanted to do such) pinch harmonics.
 
Nola said:
Say I want to record bass guitar and compress a little so the notes are more even. I don't have a compression pedal or a hardware compressor, so if i use a vst on the bass' track, does that compress the signal in the same way an outboard compressor or a pedal would?
Click to expand...

In your case, most likely yes. A pedal compressor normally goes between bass and amp. In the case of a DI, it would go between bass and interface. So the signal that an amp and an interface would get is pretty much the same. That means it doesn't really matter where the compressor is, i.e. a pedal unit before the interface, or a plug-in after.

Nola said:
Also, say I record the bass without compression and then add compression later. Does that have the same effect as if recording with compression on in the first place?
Click to expand...

Again, this is mostly yes. There is a possible difference. If you use a pedal between bass and amp, the signal is tamed before it gets to the amp. If you record bass via DI, there is no taming of the signal before it hits the interface. That means you just have to exercise care when setting the gain to make sure that strong notes don't distort.

However, if you do take care and end up with an undistorted, though variable in level, bass track, a plug-in will fix the levels as a pedal unit would.
 
Depending on your DAW, you should be able to run the compressor before any amp sim (effectively doing ITB, what you'd do outside by putting the compressor before an amp.)
 
I can only share what I do, since I've only recorded myself. I compress the living hell out of the bass. Guitars, not at all. Bass yes. Anywhere between 7:1 and 9:1, usually. I use a slower attack and release, so some of that pick sound gets through. I vary where I pick by how thick or thin I want the notes of that part. I put the compressor before anything in my bass chain. It goes first.

Of course, that's what works for my stuff...yours might not benefit from a squashed bass. I wanted to chime in, but I have limited stuff to give, so maybe something there helps.
 
I always compress bass going in, never ITB. I don't see why it wouldn't sound good ITB though you will need to be more careful of your input levels, especially if your playing dynamics are wild. Bass can create some big spikes.

Outboard or plugin, find a comp that sounds good with bass. Not all do. A good sounding compressor can do amazing things for bass. Be careful on the fast attack. It can blunt the sound and make it less punchy, less able to cut through the mix. If you can work on consistent playing dynamics, you'll probably like the sound of a slow attack better. I use a slow attack and fairly slow release as well, modest ratio (1:4 or thereabouts), and keep the threshold set for about 4 dB reduction on the loudest notes. It's not a lot of compression, but it really adds something to the tone. I use flatwound strings and play mostly finger style. 90% of the time, I'm on a Fender Jazz favoring the neck pickup. You can hear the results on any of my songs and decide what you think.
 
so thanks for the help everyone. i got a usable bass line tonight.
and learned a bit about controlling dynamics on bass that i didn't know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top