57 on the snare

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Bulls Hit

Well-known member
So let's pretend I'm playing drums on Led Zeppelin's reunion album. We're in the $10,000 a day studio, they've got the best of everything. The kits all mic'd up and there's an SM57 (yes they have 57s in this studio) on the snare. This thing's running through a $3000 preamp, Apogee converters, the best of the best into Pro Tools or whatever.

When we play back the snare track (of course this being my thread the drumming is Godlike and amazing) what would it sound like? Will it actually sound like someone hitting a snare drum, or would it just be that silly popping noise I get in my room at home that I have to EQ and compress the bejesus out of just to get something that vaguely resembles what a snare actually sounds like?
 
I'm not sure what you're asking, Bull. Are you asking whether it's possible to get a good snare sound with a 57?
 
RAMI said:
I'm not sure what you're asking, Bull. Are you asking whether it's possible to get a good snare sound with a 57?
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What I'm asking is can the big guys get a sound from a 57 that could be used as is with little or no EQ or compression ?

The reason I ask is that the sound I get from a 57 on my snare doesn't begin to sound like a snare until I've processed the crap out of it. I'm wondering if this is due to poor micing technique, or something lacking in the recording chain
 
What have you done to the snare to make it record ready? I use a 57 on our snare and it sounds like a great snare. And then I EQ to taste.
 
Bulls Hit said:
So let's pretend I'm playing drums on Led Zeppelin's reunion album. We're in the $10,000 a day studio, they've got the best of everything. The kits all mic'd up and there's an SM57 (yes they have 57s in this studio) on the snare. This thing's running through a $3000 preamp, Apogee converters, the best of the best into Pro Tools or whatever.

When we play back the snare track (of course this being my thread the drumming is Godlike and amazing) what would it sound like? Will it actually sound like someone hitting a snare drum, or would it just be that silly popping noise I get in my room at home that I have to EQ and compress the bejesus out of just to get something that vaguely resembles what a snare actually sounds like?
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If like you say, everything is set up perfect with perfect playing and perfect gear, then you could stick a $10 mic on the snare and it would sound good.
The source is the most important thing (the snare in this case) then its the player, then the gear.

Eck
 
Bulls Hit said:
What I'm asking is can the big guys get a sound from a 57 that could be used as is with little or no EQ or compression ?

The reason I ask is that the sound I get from a 57 on my snare doesn't begin to sound like a snare until I've processed the crap out of it. I'm wondering if this is due to poor micing technique, or something lacking in the recording chain
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I can pretty much guarantee the problem is your snare.
Might be a cheap crappy snare, might have old skins on it, might not be tuned properly, might be a loose snare rattle, or could be all of these factors.

Eck
 
Bulls Hit said:
When we play back the snare track (of course this being my thread the drumming is Godlike and amazing) what would it sound like? Will it actually sound like someone hitting a snare drum, or would it just be that silly popping noise I get in my room at home that I have to EQ and compress the bejesus out of just to get something that vaguely resembles what a snare actually sounds like?
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Assuming that the snare itself sounds 'godlike'...

Overhead and room mics are at least as important as the close mic for a snare sound. So the nice studio room will probably beat your home studio in that respect. The close mic SM57 may sound similar both places, but the rooms will probably be completely different. The big studio will probably not leave the SM57 unprocessed either, so don't feel bad that you have to process it.
 
Bulls Hit said:
... that silly popping noise I get in my room at home that I have to EQ and compress the bejesus out of just to get something that vaguely resembles what a snare actually sounds like?
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Sounds like a position problem. Are you up on the head? How about backing it off, down into the side, across the rim, etc?
It's a whole 'nother animal over there.
 
mixsit said:
Sounds like a position problem. Are you up on the head? How about backing it off, down into the side, across the rim, etc?
It's a whole 'nother animal over there.
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Yeah, try backing the mic away from the snare a bit. It might have a held back sound because its being compressed by the mic capsule. Also try angling the mic as this produces less compression in the capsule (if that is the problem)
I could be totally wrong though. :)

Eck
 
Bulls, I have the chance to record 2 or 3 different bands lately using my kit. The guy behind it and his sticks make the difference. You have to add other factors into count, like mic position, type of drumhead, if it´s new or not. How good is your room, etc. In my list the first of those are drummer and snare, a crapy one played by a good drummer can sound good, he will know how to do it. An excellent snare played by a bad drummer can´t sound good IMHO.
TS
 
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mixsit said:
Sounds like a position problem. Are you up on the head? How about backing it off, down into the side, across the rim, etc?
It's a whole 'nother animal over there.
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OK I think we're getting somewhere here. I did have the mic right on the rim, and now I've backed it off, maybe 3 inches, and yes it does sound much more snare-like now.

Thanks all
 
I've NEVER liked the solo sound of a single snare mic and I've tried a bunch of different mics (but not all the best). I have to also mic the bottom (for more snap) and in the end compress the hell out of both of them. I mainly use the close mic to give some body and with the gates a bit of focus to the snare. The main sound comes from the OH's and room mics.

The single most important element of a killer snare sound is the room. If I have a well tuned snare, good drummer in a great room I usually only have to compress and gate the snare. I maybe add a little EQ around 3-5k to add a little more definition if I need it.

Everytime I use a 57 on anything in a shitty room situation I end up hating the 57. Once the room is good the 57 suddenly sounds much better. :p
 
TexRoadkill said:
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Everytime I use a 57 on anything in a shitty room situation I end up hating the 57. Once the room is good the 57 suddenly sounds much better. :p
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But this is what I don't get. When the snare is close mic'd, how much of the room are you going to hear?
 
Bulls Hit said:
But this is what I don't get. When the snare is close mic'd, how much of the room are you going to hear?
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When you solo the snare mic you won't hear any room sound, but the overall snare sound is a combination of the snare mic, the OH mics and eventually the room mics (I use a stereo pair for room).

And that's where the room comes in.
 
Han said:
When you solo the snare mic you won't hear any room sound, but the overall snare sound is a combination of the snare mic, the OH mics and eventually the room mics (I use a stereo pair for room).

And that's where the room comes in.
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Amen. The room is VERY important. As is the Drummer. The snare is really not nearly as important in my experience, but tuning IS.

Also, think of the kit as one instrument. My snare sound comes from at minimum six mics. (Top, bottom, OHL, OHR, RoomR, RoomL) ANd actually, more sound comes from the OH's than the actual snare track.......

One last thing, if you are recording in a small room, you should check out T.Blakes forum over at GS. He is the only well known person I have heard of that PREFERS small drum rooms. YMMV.
 
Thanks for the replies, but my original question was specifically concerned with the snare mic only, and what it captures.

What I'm finding is I need to position the mic a good 3 - 4 inches off the rim to get something that starts to sound pleasant and realistic. Any closer than this, and it's just a kind of a popping noise that doesn't even really sound like a snare
 
Bulls Hit said:
Thanks for the replies, but my original question was specifically concerned with the snare mic only, and what it captures.

What I'm finding is I need to position the mic a good 3 - 4 inches off the rim to get something that starts to sound pleasant and realistic. Any closer than this, and it's just a kind of a popping noise that doesn't even really sound like a snare
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The deal is this - the mic picks up what you point it at. Your ears sit a good what.. 2-3 feet above the snare itself. When you hit a snare you hear a snare mic 3 feet below you and the rest of what you hear (a good portion) is how the room reflects the snare sound. When you have a mic an inch away from the snare itself..it's picking up what your ears would hear an inch away from the same space. The snare sound you're used to is compiled of the sounds from the top head, the bottom head, the walls, the ceilings.... and so on and so on.. so one microphone really close, will never sound exactly like what you hear from the drum throne - which is why the 1 single sm57 doesn't sound exactly like a snare, but only part of the snare. This is also why people are telling you the room mics and room play a part of what your snare sounds like in a recording.
 
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