Why would I need something other than GarageBand?

dyermaker8 said:
Your on a mac,. I can't believe nobodys mentioned protools?!?! lol. Just download the free trial and play with it.
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I didn't mention Protools because the answer to his question really is no. He doesn't need anything more than garage band for what he describes.
In addition to that Protools is, and always has been, a money pit.
Ilok is a PITA that a lot of people seem to be moving away from. Avid, as far as I know, haven't yet.

They have a history of being behind everyone else, too, although that seems to be levelling out now.
I'm sure every DAW has quirks but as a long time ProTools user, I'd struggle to recommend it to a hobbyist.

A lot of the time it's like recommending auto cad for someone who wants to draw a stick man. ;)
 
Nobody mentioned Protools because, despite the reputation, it's not very good.

It's a bit like designer underwear. Is it really worth spending over the odds so your jocks say "Calvin Klein" on the elastic?
 
Well....

...yeah. At least in my opinion but everything here is opinion.

I used Protools at work for a number of years, had formal traning on it, etc. etc. and I never came to like it. I found their user interface clunky and their customer support very bad. On matters technical, they performed well when they controlled all hardware and software but they tend to be so-so in a world where you buy (well, subscribe) software and hardware separately. They also have a history of being behind the curve on a number of developments...for example they were late to the party starting to use 32 bit floating point after lots of other DAWS were doing it.

So...if Protools suits you, great. However, even if I had unlimited funds, it would be behind a lot of other DAWS on my preference list.
 
Bobbsy said:
Well....

...yeah. At least in my opinion but everything here is opinion.

I used Protools at work for a number of years, had formal traning on it, etc. etc. and I never came to like it. I found their user interface clunky and their customer support very bad. On matters technical, they performed well when they controlled all hardware and software but they tend to be so-so in a world where you buy (well, subscribe) software and hardware separately. They also have a history of being behind the curve on a number of developments...for example they were late to the party starting to use 32 bit floating point after lots of other DAWS were doing it.

So...if Protools suits you, great. However, even if I had unlimited funds, it would be behind a lot of other DAWS on my preference list.
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I've never used ProTools so I can't comment on how it compares against others. In fact, I've only used two extensively --- Reaper and Tracktion. The only other one I've ever even opened up was Cakewalk, and that was just because a version came with one of my interfaces.

However, with everything that both Reaper and Tracktion allow one to do, I'm fairly convinced that if I can't get a good sound out of them, the fault lies with me and not the DAW. And I would guess that could be said for any major DAW out there.
 
Bobbsy said:
Well....

...yeah. At least in my opinion but everything here is opinion.

I used Protools at work for a number of years, had formal traning on it, etc. etc. and I never came to like it. I found their user interface clunky and their customer support very bad. On matters technical, they performed well when they controlled all hardware and software but they tend to be so-so in a world where you buy (well, subscribe) software and hardware separately. They also have a history of being behind the curve on a number of developments...for example they were late to the party starting to use 32 bit floating point after lots of other DAWS were doing it.

So...if Protools suits you, great. However, even if I had unlimited funds, it would be behind a lot of other DAWS on my preference list.
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Heh, now that's a much more reasonable post, isn't it. :)

Saying they have a history of being behind the curve, as I did, is fair, and saying you didn't get on well with it is too,
but to say it's not very good without elaborating is silly.

I wouldn't recommend it to average home recordist for the reasons listed, but it does pretty much everything and does it damn well.
 
famous beagle said:
But, doesn't pretty much every major DAW nowadays?

(And I'm sincerely asking; I'm not being a smart ass. Like I said, my experience with DAWs is limited.)
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If someone says "protools isn't very good" and I say "hold up-it does everything", I don't see how the competition is relevant.

That said, I'm not 100% sure if it is true.

Do all Daws have built in 'elastic' time and pitch manipulation and pre fader gain, for example? The answer might be yes but I don't know.
Do they all allow third party vst/au/aax/etc? What about insert limits, track count limits, simultaneous I/O limits?

The thread is about garageband so, if you count it, the answer is no - they're not all equal.


Heh...You know from my previous posts that I'm not on a pro-protools rant here - I just think it's a bit much to say it's no good and stop there.
 
I know I'm helping keep this off topic (but I'll try to bring it back at the end, I promise) but...

Everyone has a different definition of "everything" because we all have different needs. Any DAW worth considering has a good, basic feature set but, after that they have different strengths and weaknesses. What's important to one person might not even be noticed by somebody else.

Related to that is the User Interface. For me this is just about the most important single consideration and, again, everyone is different. What seems easy and logical to one person can just seem "wrong" to somebody else. I was the one who made a disparaging remark about Protools and the interface was a big part of me forming that opinion. Despite using it for several years (and even having a couple of formal training courses on it) I never got to the stage where I felt completely at home. I always felt like I was fighting with it rather than working in a partnership. However, I'll be the first to admit that this is just my own opinion and others quite like it. (I will, however, present my comments about poor customer support as fact rather than opinion--but I'd say the same about a lot of DAWS!)

Anyhow, back to Garageband, my original answer to the OP stands. Whether or not you need more depends on what's important to you in terms of features and capabilities. If it does all you need that's great. However, if you start thinking "I wish I could..." then maybe you do need more. The slight problem with this though is that every DAW has a learning curve and, if you even suspect you might need something more elaborate then at least consider doing the upgrade sooner rather than later, if only so you don't waste six months learning Garageband only to have to start again.

See? Told you I'd try to pull it back on topic! (Even if it was a stretch!) :)
 
I appreciate the detailed response man.

I just think "Despite the reputation, it's not very good." is the kind of statement that'll just be completely ignored or taken at face value.
Your views are completely valid and, in my opinion, worth elaborating on. :)

Oh and +1. I don't have anything good to say about their customer support either. :(
 
Steenamaroo said:
I appreciate the detailed response man.

I just think "Despite the reputation, it's not very good." is the kind of statement that'll just be completely ignored or taken at face value.
Your views are completely valid and, in my opinion, worth elaborating on. :)

Oh and +1. I don't have anything good to say about their customer support either. :(
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Yeah...I should have gone a bit farther in my original post (which was an off-the-cuff reaction to a previous comment/question).

I think what irks me is the contention that ProTools is the "industry standard"...but that's because it IS the industry standard. However, (and again this is my opinion) we're in one of those "everybody uses it so it must be good so I'll use it too" loops. There's no magic about ProTools and what it can do--the biggest argument in its favour in a professional setting is the need for compatibility with other users. This doesn't really apply in home recording where you can choose what does the job best for you--and I'll wager that in an awful lot of cases, this won't be ProTools

An analogy would be the SM58 which many will argue is the "best" live vocal mic. Because of this, you see it everywhere. However, the thing is that for many/most applications there are better mics out there--better sound quality, better feedback rejection and so on. However, it so ubiquitous that people keep buying it. Heck, even I have a bunch so I can bring them out when asked--but I have other mics to offer and the reaction is very often "wow! that's better".

Me? I wish I could get back to some mixing. I'm in the middle of a video editing project from hell that should have finished weeks ago but the client keeps asking for "little" changes that generally mean starting from scratch. Pro tip: don't take work from a singer who shot hours of material on a phone in portrait mode because she thought it would look cool.
 
Bobbsy said:
Yeah...I should have gone a bit farther in my original post (which was an off-the-cuff reaction to a previous comment/question).

I think what irks me is the contention that ProTools is the "industry standard"...but that's because it IS the industry standard. However, (and again this is my opinion) we're in one of those "everybody uses it so it must be good so I'll use it too" loops. There's no magic about ProTools and what it can do--the biggest argument in its favour in a professional setting is the need for compatibility with other users. This doesn't really apply in home recording where you can choose what does the job best for you--and I'll wager that in an awful lot of cases, this won't be ProTools

An analogy would be the SM58 which many will argue is the "best" live vocal mic. Because of this, you see it everywhere. However, the thing is that for many/most applications there are better mics out there--better sound quality, better feedback rejection and so on. However, it so ubiquitous that people keep buying it. Heck, even I have a bunch so I can bring them out when asked--but I have other mics to offer and the reaction is very often "wow! that's better".

Me? I wish I could get back to some mixing. I'm in the middle of a video editing project from hell that should have finished weeks ago but the client keeps asking for "little" changes that generally mean starting from scratch. Pro tip: don't take work from a singer who shot hours of material on a phone in portrait mode because she thought it would look cool.
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Yeah, that industry standard thing is true enough.
I'm not sure there's any particular reason for it being industry standard other than the fact that it is. lol.

In that respect I'm very glad I use Protools. I can easily think of plenty of times when sharing Protools sessions was such a lifesaver,
but when I was 100% working alone I'm pretty sure I could have been using logic/reaper/whatever just as happily.

I mean I'm more than happy with it and it does absolutely everything I need it to do, but I have no real reason to say it's better than anything else.
It's just what I know.

Ha, since we're on it, there is something that really bugged me about Protools.
You mentioned the "it must be good so I'll have to use it" idea and that bled across into their SE and Maudio versions which, apparently, were shite.
I'm not sure if they've completely discontinued them or not but the SE was plagued with issues and very limited. It really wasn't a contender against pretty much any other Daw but to the beginner...it was Protools.
That must be good, right?
Protools SE = egg crates. lol

LOL. Hope you get that job closed up asap.
I hate those keep-coming-back types. :(
 
Bobbsy said:
Pro tip: don't take work from a singer who shot hours of material on a phone in portrait mode because she thought it would look cool.
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Portrait video = awful

If God had intended us to look at portrait video he would have stuck our eyes on top of each other instead of side by side.
 
Yeah. Basically I'm doing almost the entire video as a series of independent split screens with two images up at a time--looks okay but it's also why changing one thing often means redoing a lot of other bits.
 
GarageBand I found recently doesn't have the ability to split a stereo track into two mono tracks. Also, it may not be 64-bit? And Addictive Drums 2 is not officially supported. So since I commented I've kind of changed my mind as to whether it does everything I could need, go figure. :P Really like the few templates it comes with though. If I found a DAW with tons of templates that would definitely be worth buying instead of me tweaking things until I find something that sounds good. I'm not a professional so that could take forever. . .
 
Steenamaroo said:
Yeah, that industry standard thing is true enough.
I'm not sure there's any particular reason for it being industry standard other than the fact that it is. lol.

In that respect I'm very glad I use Protools. I can easily think of plenty of times when sharing Protools sessions was such a lifesaver,
but when I was 100% working alone I'm pretty sure I could have been using logic/reaper/whatever just as happily.

I mean I'm more than happy with it and it does absolutely everything I need it to do, but I have no real reason to say it's better than anything else.
It's just what I know.

Ha, since we're on it, there is something that really bugged me about Protools.
You mentioned the "it must be good so I'll have to use it" idea and that bled across into their SE and Maudio versions which, apparently, were shite.
I'm not sure if they've completely discontinued them or not but the SE was plagued with issues and very limited. It really wasn't a contender against pretty much any other Daw but to the beginner...it was Protools.
That must be good, right?
Protools SE = egg crates. lol

LOL. Hope you get that job closed up asap.
I hate those keep-coming-back types. :(
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As I understand it, the reason it's the industry standard is because it was the first really successful DAW, and it spread like wildfire. Because it was both a software and hardware system (back then), people were not as apt to jump ship because they'd invested so much in it already. Is that the gist?
 
famous beagle said:
As I understand it, the reason it's the industry standard is because it was the first really successful DAW, and it spread like wildfire. Because it was both a software and hardware system (back then), people were not as apt to jump ship because they'd invested so much in it already. Is that the gist?
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Yup. I was working in the industry (the film and TV side, not recording studios) and that's exactly what happened, with a couple of additions.

First off, the money--in TV audio post, we'd made the move from tape based systems (basically multitrack recorders linked via time code to video playback) to hardware based non-linear digital systems. The first I worked with was a "DAR Soundstation" which set the company back around $50,000. A Pro Tools set up a couple of years later cost about $6000 for the hardware and software.

Second, Digidesign was clever enough to get involved in a merger with Avid non linear video editing and pair it with Pro Tools giving a fairly seamless interchange for video and film post production. There was little to compete with this combination for a number of years--Quantel made arguably better video editing but didn't have an audio side.

Similar happened in the music recording industry with Digidesign/Avid buying companies like Sibelius and Euphonix,

...doesn't make me like working with it though!
 
famous beagle said:
As I understand it, the reason it's the industry standard is because it was the first really successful DAW, and it spread like wildfire. Because it was both a software and hardware system (back then), people were not as apt to jump ship because they'd invested so much in it already. Is that the gist?
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I think so, yeah.
 
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