Who to trust? ears or ..

G

Gillette

New member
lately I've read various forums on the subject of audio interfaces.
What I often found was statements like : "it has great converters..." or, " it has much better preamps.." and so on.

How does somebody knows if some interface has great converters?
What is the criteria for better preamps?

As I understand, the new generation interfaces should not have problems such as latency or noise, but I don't really know.
My audio-interface is an old one, and back in time those were the only real problems, and of course drivers conflicts.

What interests me is how somebody can tell these days that some interface has problems?
Before was easy: you hear some hiss, the sound noticeably late, computer freezes, blues screens, black screens etc.

I assume that interface production has advanced, and even the cheap one works much better now than some 10 years old interface.
Common problems are overcome, software is getting better and so on


But people are still in discussion which one is better, and it seems that they know what they are talking about, so I wonder:

Does one trust his ears (so he can hear the noise or latency) or the sound itself is ok, but he knows that something isn't perfect because some software is showing some deviations from the expected parameters ?

To be more simple
Here is my problem with my interface, and it can be heard whenever I touch the guitar strings:

Noise by Gillette Wilkinson | Free Listening on SoundCloud

And here is the problem I saw recently

YouTube

so I' m just wondering if I went crazy :)
 
Hi,
You post is sort of split into two topics so I'm just going to focus on the latter; Your specific problem.

Can you list, in detail, your equipment and signal path.
Cables, splitters, interfaces, amps, mics, effects (hardware or software)...anything that audio goes through.
From the guitar right to the audio file.

You say this noise happens when you touch the string, but the clip suggests that it happens when the guitar has output.
That leads me to ask, is there a noise gate (hardware or software) in your chain?

I have a few troubleshooting approaches for you, but I want to know the setup first.
 
Thank you Steenamaroo..

My equipment is usualy like this:

Electric guitar into this
M-Audio ProKeys Sono 61 Digital Piano with USB Interface | Musician's Friend

as you can see it has the Instrument input.
Then (in my PC) I use Amplitbe 4, or Guitar Rig5 and similar guitar amp simulators, as standalone program, or as VST in DAW

My DAW is Reaper.

In Reaper I choose Mono, second channel.
I use Noise gate in Amplitube. Without NG the noise is even more louder.
Usualy it looks like this

Capture.JPG

And that's about it.

Midi keyboard has a fiew knobs itself (you can see pictures above) but as for Gain, there are Mic Gain, and Ins.Gain.

Inst. Gain has two indicator lights: one is green (wen signal is good) and the other is red (when clipping)
The red one lights almost never, because I don't turn that Gain all the way up. If I did, it'll be even more noise.

Hope this will give you some ideas
 
Ok, thanks for the info.

Knowing you have a noise gate on is helpful. Really what you have is a constant interference then.
The fact that it's intermittent is the result of post-processing.
Disable the noise gate for the time being, while any troubleshooting is happening.

Are you using the 9V power supply with your keyboard or can it be USB bus powered?
If it can be bus powered, try that.

Gillette said:
In Reaper I choose Mono, second channel.
Click to expand...

The second channel corresponds to instrument input.
Try a recording from that channel with no guitar plugged in.
Try a recording from channel one with nothing plugged in.
If you have a mic, try channel one again with a mic plugged in.
Let me know if there is interference on any of these recordings.


If it's always there, I'd suspect something relating to the power supply.
If it's only there on channel two with guitar plugged in, I'd suspect your pickups are picking up interference from some equipment in the room.

Get set up to record, pop your headphones on so you can hear the interference in real-time, then move the guitar around the room.
Do a 360 and see if the noise changes at all.

Also, finally, the keyboard has a direct monitor knob.
Turn it all the way to direct and plug headphones into the keyboard.
Plug in your guitar and turn up until you can hear it. Do you hear the interference?
Now leave everything the same but unplug the USB connection.
You should still hear the guitar. Do you hear interference?

Long shot - if you have smart watch, take it off. ;)
 
Last edited:
Just an quick answer, before I go trough all this :

- It is connected via usb.
- There aren' power supply problems ( I have real tube and ss guitar amps, and they produce no noise at all)
- It happens whichever guitar I use: sss, humbuckers, or piezzo-acoustic
- When I was recording just voice, there where no noise.
- There is no noise also when I record piano, or other vst's. But whenever I use some guitar related programe (Amplitube, Guitar RIg or so..the noise appears, even if I don't plug guitar. And it gets even worse if I turn Gain knob more. With distorted sound the noise sort of disapper in mix with other soundss, but the clean is a big problem, so I have to use Noise gate, but then it kills the sustain and so on..
 
OK, that's useful.

Gillette said:
- It is connected via usb.
Click to expand...
No 9v supply? Just making certain.

An amp sim exacerbating noise is pretty normal so I don't think we can consider it a source, but rule it out to be sure.
Record through your amp sim as before but set the input to channel 1 instead of 2.

There will be hiss and noise, sure, but set it aside for now and listen for that repetitive digital sounding chirp.

Another approach (although do both) is to set up a brand new track, with no effects or processes at all, and record some clean electric guitar.
Get a good healthy level of signal, record something down, and attach as mp3 or soundcloud, please.

Really all I'm trying to get you to do here is swap stuff to learn things.
If A connected to D makes noise, connect A to B and C to D. Always rules out something.

Your troubleshooting thus far does lean towards ruling out the hardware.
 
Gillette said:
But whenever I use some guitar related programe (Amplitube, Guitar RIg or so..the noise appears, even if I don't plug guitar. And it gets even worse if I turn Gain knob more. With distorted sound the noise sort of disapper in mix with other soundss, but the clean is a big problem, so I have to use Noise gate, but then it kills the sustain and so on..
Click to expand...

What about the guitar cord itself? Have you tried others?
 
Gillette said:
Can't do that.
It only let me record in channel 2
If I choose channel 1, nothing happens..no input signal from guitar to Reaper..
Click to expand...

That's OK. There's no signal because there's no mic.
I want to know if you get the same noise when recording from a different physical input, whether there's a source or not.
 
Ok, I hear the same noise in your clean clips but much quieter.
Need to know if it's present without a guitar now.

Edit:
Oops, just saw your clip 'without guitar'.
So the noise is present with no instrument and with no software processing and there's no additional power supply so...That points at the keyboard as an audio interface.

Right now there are a few things you can try but if they fail I'd lean towards pickup up a dedicated audio interface.

1: Try the whole setup on a different computer.
2: Try a different USB port. If you're using rear, try front. Vice verse.
3: Try a powered USB hub with power supply connected and enable, if you have one.
4: Try a different USB cable. It's a generic kind so you probably have another device using the same thing.
Check USB harddrives, printers, that kind of thing.
 
Thank you Steenamaroo, I've already tried all that, even another computer, cables, everything that can be remoovable

And after thar it all came to the new interface thing, so now I am trying to understand which interface should I get, in order to keep the keyboard (because it works fine as a "digital piano or midi keyboard, depending on whether I use it as a standalone digital piano, or as a midi with the PC powered on, etc..)
 
OK, cool.

The only thing you didn't confirm is trying with a USB powered hub which could potentially solve the problem.
Also, trying with the 9v power adapter would be a good idea.
I appreciate it's not required but powering your device from another source is a plausible solution.

I'd do those before eyeing up any purchases although I'd be the first to suggest a dedicate interface just because.. ;)

Update. Forget the 9v. It's not relevant when bus powered.
 
Thank you Steenmaroo

can you please answer this: Is it possible to connect both via usb (the keyboard and the new interface?)

I mean, keyboard is already connected that way, and the new interface should have its own usb cable,right? and my PC has probably 5 or even more USB inputs.

So..That way I could maybe use the best of both worlds: The new interface for condenser mic (and maybe guitar if it has better signal, preamp, or whatever..), and the keyboard for playing piano and midi (when PC is powered on)?
 
If you're on a MS operating system there's a bunch of maybe/technically/possibly, but the simple answer is no.
Your recording software wants to see one audio interface.

Now, your keyboard has line outputs so if you had an audio interface with a spare pair of line inputs you could hook up that way.

If this keyboard does midi control + data via USB you could carry on using that without issue.
The midi data is a completely separate protocol and any DAW should happily 'see' that along side some USB audio interface.

Personally, without a very specific explanation for the problem, I'd be hesitant to buy any other bus-powered audio interface.
It could be that your computer PSU is noisy and the keyboard isn't effectively filtering that. If that's true then it's pot luck whether another USB interface has the same issue.

This is why I'd urge you to try out a a powered USB hub, if possible. It's the only convenient way I can think of to isolate the keyboard from the PC power supply.
 
I see..so the last thing to check is that usb powerd hub, or 9v power supply adaptor.

Although I'm not sure about that USB hub, because the keyboard's only connection to the PC is via USB. If I get it connected to that USB hub will it still stay connected to PC? (but just with more power, to put it that way..'cause I'm not sure what USB hub does exactly. It does power up some all kind usb devices allright..bu does it keep connection with the pC as well? )
 
Gillette said:
I see..so the last thing to check is that usb powerd hub, or 9v power supply adaptor.
Click to expand...

I looked up the manual and was wrong about the 9v supply. I mean, try it just incase but it sounds like it's not used at all unless the keyboard is in stand-alone mode.

Gillette said:
Although I'm not sure about that USB hub, because the keyboard's only connection to the PC is via USB. If I get it connected to that USB hub will it still stay connected to PC? (but just with more power, to put it that way..'cause I'm not sure what USB hub does exactly. It does power up some all kind usb devices allright..bu does it keep connection with the pC as well? )
Click to expand...

Yes, your keyboard would still have its data connection to the PC.

The logic here is that USB has four wires. Data+and- , and power supply +and-.
Using a powered hub would break the 5v+ supply from the computer and replace it with it's own 5v supply which, I'm hoping, will be cleaner....Less noisy.

If the noise you hear is a result of a noisy computer power supply or the keyboards inability to effectively filter out that noise, a powered hub could potentially prove, or solve it.

As with all troubleshooting, it's a bit of a hunch. I mean, don't go and spend $40 on some fancy hub based on my speculation,
but if you have one or can borrow one it's definitely worth a try. :)
 
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