Vocals problem

P

polkor

New member
Dear all
I need help regarding vocals and EQ
1. My vocals lack warmth.It's an ongoing problem. I use Shure 58beta , UR22 and Softube plugins, Waves and little Soundtoys. Usually i pan vocals left/ right , de ess them, eq, compress , duplicate, compress by different comp. add ad-libs. On sends i add bit of reverb around -10. Effect is most of the time same- very flat sounding vocals.
2. Iam bit confused with EQ . Why standard preset in cubase for man's vocals have 0.0db . Should frequencies under 100hz be roll of by - db?
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3. To avoid clipping i keep vocals,instrumentals, and master buss -db . Hence after applying limiter on master buss is it a common practice to bring up levels ( lets say from -3.6db into -0.3 master buss only) or keep it the way it is.

Cheers
 
Please post an example of your vocals. It would really help.
I don't know what your voice sounds like, not sure what your mic sounds like, not sure how the plugins you're using are interacting with the signal. The information you provided in the post is good, but it's still better to post examples, so we can give more accurate advice instead of just guessing what the problem could be, kind of how you should get your mechanic to your car instead of trying to imitate the weird sounds it's making with your mouth.
 
Hmm. I wanna suggest using a different colored compressor. The vocals do stand out a lot. Much clarity tho, so I don't think eq is your problem. I was expecting a muddy mix, but this sounds pretty darn good.
I am no pro, but as I said before, maybe try fiddling with different compressors.
Also, maybe you can give a little more in the lower freq of the vox. That's where warmth usually dwells I believe.. Could be wrong , could save a life. I'm learning too, haha.
 
As far as EQ, u can find cheat sheets online, like what frequencies help with warmth, brightness, air etc. For me, warmth is usually accomplished with harmonic distortion more than eq. Tube and tape plugins help alot. Variety of sound has a free one, several actually.
 
There was another thread about acoustic guitar where a good answer was given about why cloning a track and applying different effects can create phase issues. I'd say the same thing here - stick with a single track and get that sounding how you want it, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're doing.

Beta58 is kind of bright IME. This is one place where I think maybe some h/w could pay off - something like an SM7b along with a Golden Age Pre73 would fit that voice better, though it's a big jump in $.

Yes, even with a bari/bass (well, not Samuel Ramey bass), you'll want your HPF to roll off around 100Hz, again, IME....
 
Well, if they're lacking warmth, maybe ditch that 200hz cut in your picture...? I'd bet there's more boxiness closer to 500 than 200. If there's something prompting your cut in the 200hz area, then maybe narrow that EQ band and be more precise with the cut. But...to me, that's like saying your vocals are too bright and you have a huge high shelf...so, start with ditching that low mid cut and see if that does it.
 
thank you all for answers and suggestions. One more thing , will this roll off eliminate low frequencies?


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I'd have to say that, before too much worrying about EQ, I'd seriously think about the choice of microphone. The SM58 is design for live stage use in situations where the stage is loud. It has a deliberate upper presence peak to help vocals cut through in a live situation but, all by itself in a recording, this peak can be anything from "very bright" to "harsh", depending on the voice.

There are some relatively expensive mics than might give you want you want (SM7B, RE20) but if money is an issue, even the cheapie Sennheiser 835 is noticeably warmer and more natural than the 58.

Back onto your actual question, yes, I'd leave more LF in than you have now. Being down 6dB at 100Hz can't be helping. I might be looking for a bit more subtle boost in the lower mids (but not enough to go nasal). I suspect the boost at 3511 Hz is doing you no favours and the other boost around 10k probably isn't doing much at all (but if it DOES make an audible change, it'll be in the wrong direction for warmth.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Well, if they're lacking warmth, maybe ditch that 200hz cut in your picture...? I'd bet there's more boxiness closer to 500 than 200. If there's something prompting your cut in the 200hz area, then maybe narrow that EQ band and be more precise with the cut. But...to me, that's like saying your vocals are too bright and you have a huge high shelf...so, start with ditching that low mid cut and see if that does it.
Click to expand...
Yeah I tried a semi-wide dip up around 6 hundred or so.
Was there's something prompting your cut in the 200hz area?
 
First thing I'd suggest is throw out the EQ preset. Only EQ what NEEDS to be EQed. If you don't have any low end noise than the low cut's not even needed. Unless you are recording in a great room, you probably need to scoop some of the boxy range out (500-800Hz). Use an EQ that lets you adjust the bandwidth ('Q').
 
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vocals sound good to me too. the mback could be louder but really I dont see any issues...er....dont hear any issues.
I like the stereo-mono trick.

second track is about the same, claritys great....I suppose you could master it and maybe get it a little bit more pressed together with the vocal and music, but it might make it worse too.
 
Thanks again for all comments. Much appreciated. Well i have clarity in those vocals, but something something is missing. I have tried to figure it out and i tho lack of warmth, color , perhaps analogue sound.
Maybe i expect too much from shure58 beta. Btw this mic was recommended in this forum a year ago when i had posted about what mic do i need for my vocals. Now i look at the shure 7b like at girl from Penthouse magazine. Want it but cant have it :(
 
I prefer the regular SM57 and SM58 to the Beta versions. Beta has a hard edge to the high frequencies to my ear. SM series does not. If you know someone who has one you can try for comparison you might like it better. Also if you find an SM57 used and don't like it, it will hold its resale value. The cost is less than Beta versions.
 
I've been using cubase since 1994, and now I'm on 9 - I never even noticed that the eq even had presets! EQ, and to be honest I think even more important with digital eq, needs to be musical. A screenshot of you fading out the low end gradually is an indication of what it's doing - but the signal itself is what makes the difference. Sure, you can boost and cut almost anything - but you have a voice, a microphone and your monitor speakers, these things are all personal. You really need to train your ears to recognise what a sound is made up from, then to be able to analyse what is good and bad about it, and if it's wrong, what to do about it. An SM58 has a characteristic sound, and sounds familiar when people touch their lips to them. However, as soon as they move away, even a few inches, then the sound changes differently depending on the voice. Some get better, others get worse, so there's no magical add 3dB at 300Hz, cut 1.5dB at 1.5KHz type solution. Every voice is different. I still almost tweak the eq randomly to start with, but in reality I hear things, and hone in on them. I experiment around the area that stands out, and there's so much adjustment possible, you want to tweak gently, then deepen any cut or boost once you find the right frequency. If you end up with a radical curve, it's probably something has gone wrong. I tend to add three frequencies, 2,3 and 4 in the places my ear suggests and start with 2 and 3. Often ending up with a gentle boost at the top end and then maybe I'll add point 1 and roll off the bottom - but only if it needs it. No rules no absolutes. It sounds like you want it to be some kind of formula, and I don't think there is one. I know plenty of people who always pick the the same frequencies and cut/boost. Same with compression - they slap on the same thing every time. I'm only guilty of this on bass - but again, I don't save this as a preset, I do something similar each time, but never exactly the same.

I did discover years ago that if your monitors are not good, then eq is so much harder.
 
rob aylestone said:
I've been using cubase since 1994, and now I'm on 9 - I never even noticed that the eq even had presets! EQ, and to be honest I think even more important with digital eq, needs to be musical. A screenshot of you fading out the low end gradually is an indication of what it's doing - but the signal itself is what makes the difference. Sure, you can boost and cut almost anything - but you have a voice, a microphone and your monitor speakers, these things are all personal. You really need to train your ears to recognise what a sound is made up from, then to be able to analyse what is good and bad about it, and if it's wrong, what to do about it. An SM58 has a characteristic sound, and sounds familiar when people touch their lips to them. However, as soon as they move away, even a few inches, then the sound changes differently depending on the voice. Some get better, others get worse, so there's no magical add 3dB at 300Hz, cut 1.5dB at 1.5KHz type solution. Every voice is different. I still almost tweak the eq randomly to start with, but in reality I hear things, and hone in on them. I experiment around the area that stands out, and there's so much adjustment possible, you want to tweak gently, then deepen any cut or boost once you find the right frequency. If you end up with a radical curve, it's probably something has gone wrong. I tend to add three frequencies, 2,3 and 4 in the places my ear suggests and start with 2 and 3. Often ending up with a gentle boost at the top end and then maybe I'll add point 1 and roll off the bottom - but only if it needs it. No rules no absolutes. It sounds like you want it to be some kind of formula, and I don't think there is one. I know plenty of people who always pick the the same frequencies and cut/boost. Same with compression - they slap on the same thing every time. I'm only guilty of this on bass - but again, I don't save this as a preset, I do something similar each time, but never exactly the same.

I did discover years ago that if your monitors are not good, then eq is so much harder.
Click to expand...

^^ that is some serious truth ^^
 
I have never been a fan of the stock Cubase EQ for anything other than HPF rolloff. Any boosting seems harsh to me and I recommend never boosting frequencies with it. Just my opinion.

Overall I think your vocal sounds pretty good. I would say with confidence that an SM7b with decent preamp would do your particular voice much benefit. Start selling your Penthouse magazines... :)

And the vocal is really dry. Maybe a hint of a soft room verb may help a bit to create a space.
 
polkor said:
thank you all for answers and suggestions. One more thing , will this roll off eliminate low frequencies?


1ik3d1.png
Click to expand...

No, it will eliminate the pops from syllables. The low end roll off on vocals can vary from 60-100 hz depending on the microphone used and mix balance.

Since you don't have a lot of timber to your voice, consider adding a mono buss, and sticking a sonic maximizer plug in, then eq a roll off if you need to.
Here is a link to them via the software's author who wrote it for Jesusonic plugins:
https://app.box.com/s/h0dy6qzpbg3r6zdidc94

You might want to consider a cheap ribbon mic if you don't like a beta58. When I bring a band to a studio, I go through all of their microphones to pick out the best one to use with the vocals.
 
I really appreciate your help and suggestions:thumbs up:. Well before i also applied kramer tape vst on vocals but effect was totally opposite what i had expected. Vocals were harsh and aggressive. Perhaps i should try little radiator on vocals or FET compressor
What about this combo sm58beta +GAP 73
Or sm7b and my UR22
Cannot afford sm7b and GAP73
 
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