Upgrade home voice over setup

peterbrinson

New member
What is most lacking in my setup for voice over?

I have an SM 58 and/or a Shure AXS4 microphone.
I use a Tascam US 322 audio interface for my laptop.

The sound quality is acceptable, but you can imagine it's quiet. I get some improvement adding a compression filter after the fact in my editing software, but I know a hardware compressor would be better.

I'd like to mix two microphones but if a single channel setup affords a tremendous quality boost for my buck, I'll make do with a single-channel setup.

- If I spent under $500 for an upgrade, what would you do? Replace the microphones? Get a preamp? Get a compressor?

Thank you.
 
Mixing is done with your DAW software. You have two inputs so you could record both mics at the same time, I'm pretty sure, if you wanted too.
 
Good point. I'd like to focus my question -- for less than $500, how can I improve the quality of my recordings with my current setup? Or should I move on with new equipment?
 
What is most lacking in my setup for voice over?

I have an SM 58 and/or a Shure AXS4 microphone.
I use a Tascam US 322 audio interface for my laptop.

The sound quality is acceptable, but you can imagine it's quiet. I get some improvement adding a compression filter after the fact in my editing software, but I know a hardware compressor would be better.

I'd like to mix two microphones but if a single channel setup affords a tremendous quality boost for my buck, I'll make do with a single-channel setup.

- If I spent under $500 for an upgrade, what would you do? Replace the microphones? Get a preamp? Get a compressor?

Thank you.

Why/how do you know a hardware compressor would be better? I have not come across the US 322 before but it seem ok. Has some internal DSP including a compressor. What DAW audio software are you using? I think Tascams came with Cubase, be a comp' pluggin in that or you could use Reaper.

Probably 50% of the questions into HR are to do with microphone recording of voices and getting a good "PERCIEVED" level. Mostly you don't need to and can fix levels post tracking.

Spend some time wading through similar posts.

Dave.
 
I'm using Audition or Audacity. Ok, I'm wrong about digital compressors. I just wish I didn't have to - in post - crank amplitude above 0db in order to get a decent volume.
 
"crank amplitude above 0db " ?? dB what? Can't be 0dBFS because that's all she wrote.

I simply don't see the issue with making the voice track of the CORRECT level for its ultimate destination? If it is going to be part of a mix it needs to start life at -18, even -25dBFS along with all the other tracks.

If intended as a stand alone vox-pop then surely it will have SOME other work done to it? Now, I freely admit I know Jack about mixing and MUCH less than FA about mastering but, I do understand the analogue electronics involved and I can follow logical arguments about how to go about things. I am therefore just reiterating the distilled wisdom of the many talented studio people here and at a couple of other places.

Dave.
 
Sorry. I'm not saying that the level is at 0db, but that I have to add a lot of gain to it bring it up to a reasonable volume. So I figured I either need to get a proper condenser mic or some other edit to my setup. I'll keep searching the forums like you say.
 
Sorry. I'm not saying that the level is at 0db, but that I have to add a lot of gain to it bring it up to a reasonable volume. So I figured I either need to get a proper condenser mic or some other edit to my setup. I'll keep searching the forums like you say.

"Reasonable volume" for the human voice is that volume that someone talks at you at! Can you not get a noise free sound at that level in the room or in headphones?

See, most beginners think of the recording process arse uppards. You START at the output. Can you playout a radio station and have the link lady SOUND as tho' she is at a natural level*? The BBC radios 3&4 are best for this.

Once you have established that the monitor chain is 'gain staged' correctly with quality, trusted sources THEN you move on to getting YOUR recording levels to match.

*NB, the MUSIC will NOT be at a 'real' level WRT the voice but that is due to the shortcomings of broadcasting dynamic range but mostly the limitations of people's home (or car!) audio systems. Big debate as to how loud 'inter-music' speech should be but it obviously has to sit audibly along with Hammerclavier or noisier!

Dave.
 
What is the "volume" of the raw track as you record it? Can you post a download link to a short snip of what you're voiceover track in uncompressed, unnormalized, non-lossy export form?

Your raw track, when recorded at 24-bit depth, gives you a large amount of dynamic range to work with, so you don't have to crank the interface GAIN up to the max to get something recorded that is workable. If you need more gain post-recording, just use a Gain plugin or normalize the track (in Audacity) to raise it up, though I'd think an SM58 should be fine, and you could work with a compressor & limiter to get where you want in the end.

But, again, post a short clip.
 
Sorry. I'm not saying that the level is at 0db, but that I have to add a lot of gain to it bring it up to a reasonable volume. So I figured I either need to get a proper condenser mic or some other edit to my setup. I'll keep searching the forums like you say.

This has been talked about on the forums a lot. Some mics, like the 58 or SM7b, simply require more gain than many other mics when using audio interfaces. Many are using pre-amps to increase the gain before the interface. So, if your sole issue is a lack of gain, I'd start looking for either other mics or pre-amps.
[MENTION=43272]Steenamaroo[/MENTION] knows more.
 
Yup ^.
Sounds like it'd be worth clarifying some terminology, OP, because you say the microphone recording is quiet, which need to be with reference to something, then you're asking for gear to improve the quality.
By 'improve the quality' do you just mean louder? If not, what else is wrong?

Talking about recordings being quiet is no use out of context. If you turn the speakers down, everything's quiet. ;)
If your point of reference is a Metallica record and your subject is solo vocal then, yeah..Sure; It's going to be quiet.

If you can tell us that your vocal recording peaks at X and RMS is Y in whatever daw, and there is, or isn't, audible hiss, then we'll know if it's too quiet.
Really, with digital manipulation, the only time a recording is too quiet is if its too close to the noise floor.

If there's a solid margin there you can turn anything up and, then, if the perceived volume still seems low due to an extremely dynamic recording,
you can look at recording/performance technique and/or compression to assist with that.


If attaching a clip is easier, do that please. :)

PS. Andrush: Got your PMs; Been busy. :(
 
It has just come to me (doh!) that all this stems from the days of tape recording. Back then mic pre amps easily beat tape for noise, well certainly the very expensive 'broadcast' and recording pres did. You HAD to get a good level onto tape, somewhere around -6 to 0 VU and if it whacked the needle to the end stop sometimes, not end of world. Had you recorded at -20VU the resultant tape hiss would have been intolerable IF you pushed the replay gain up.

Digital is not like that, it makes NO noise! Really! Recording at 24 bits ALL the noise you hear is in the analogue path and very often random pickup from the room. So, imagine if you can a "super tape recorder" which adds nothing to the proceedings!

Dave.
 
Exactly ^!
As far back as analog recording practices might seem, I think that's still the source of the 'hot as possible' belief.
Trouble is it gains you nothing these days and one slip can ruin your take.

It's like, I must walk along the roof of this building. Sure, I'll do it right at the edge. Why not.? :)
 
I've attached an original recording (but as mp3)

What I would do next, to post-process (as maybe that's the problem):
- Audacity. Effect - Single Band Compressor - Vocal Booster
- and then: Studio Reverb (yes for effect, for this project). That brings the levels down, for sure.
- At this point, I have to "adjust amplitude" upward so that my levels get somewhere close to 0db. I assumed I was doing something wrong, having to do this last step?

View attachment p1D_01.mp3
 
I've attached an original recording (but as mp3)

What I would do next, to post-process (as maybe that's the problem):
- Audacity. Effect - Single Band Compressor - Vocal Booster
- and then: Studio Reverb (yes for effect, for this project). That brings the levels down, for sure.
- At this point, I have to "adjust amplitude" upward so that my levels get somewhere close to 0db. I assumed I was doing something wrong, having to do this last step?

View attachment 102583

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but as long as your raw file, without effects, is around the -18 mark, you should be good to go. The rest of gain can be made up with boosting the channel, plugin gain, or a limiter.

Of course, there's others here that know in more detail about leveling and signal gain etc... and there's even different interpretations of what -18 really means and how it's measured, but in general that's where lots of people try to hit for their raw signals when recordings. That's what I shoot for, and I'm pretty certain it's the norm.
 
There's nothing wrong with that at all. Peaks ~-9 (just at that louder part at the end) and no real noise (from the bit I listened to).

So, what to do depends on where it's going, and whether there's additional material, like music or something to mix with.

The LUFS measurement I get is -28, so you've got a lot of room to get it to streaming or video range, about -14, but if you simply push that into a limiter, it's not going to treat the peaks very nicely, so I'd start with some compression and follow up with limiting.

So, here's what I did to the attached. I split the clip to apply -4dB gain to the last bit that was louder (and of a different quality - didn't try to fix that), i.e., so the entire part was the same relative loudness. Then, I put a lot of compression and makeup gain, and shoved it through the limiter to push the overall LUFS to around -14. Obviously, you can play with EQ and reverb to your heart's content, but I'm just working on the levels.

I would say you need to get consistent in your mic approach because, obviously, you probably cannot sit and read endlessly without breaks. It's going to be important to watch your settings, mic distance, angle, etc., in short, everything, when piecing together a bunch of takes.

View attachment p1D_01-gcl-kr.mp3

Screen Shot 2018-05-15 at 11.47.52 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-05-15 at 11.48.12 AM.png

P.S. (edit) To further clarify, the compression reduced the dynamic range audibly but I didn't use that to increase the overall loudness, except to use makeup gain to keep it about the same. The result was lowered peaks. Then I used the limiter to do the real lifting, and just made sure the very tops were lopped off, but not resulting in a lot of squared off tops.

Screen Shot 2018-05-15 at 11.56.12 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-05-15 at 11.56.31 AM.png

P.P.S. I'd really suggest learning to do this in a DAW. Audacity is OK for some tasks, but the kind of back and forth fine tuning you'd be doing (IMO) would make me crazy in Audacity.
 
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I've attached an original recording (but as mp3)

What I would do next, to post-process (as maybe that's the problem):
- Audacity. Effect - Single Band Compressor - Vocal Booster
- and then: Studio Reverb (yes for effect, for this project). That brings the levels down, for sure.
- At this point, I have to "adjust amplitude" upward so that my levels get somewhere close to 0db. I assumed I was doing something wrong, having to do this last step?

View attachment 102583

That sounds ok to me. The level is pretty spot on, averages around -20dBFS and an absolute peak at -8.5dBFS. The noise floor (found by looping the 'silence' near the end) is around -51dBFS. Not brilliant but the noise is a soft 'shush' and not intrusive. If you want a lower noise floor you will need to find out what is causing that noise.
Setup exactly the same way, record voice to the same level then pull the mic plug and record another 10 seconds or so. Post as a 320k MP3.

We have breath abated!

Dave.
 
I've attached an original recording (but as mp3)

What I would do next, to post-process (as maybe that's the problem):
- Audacity. Effect - Single Band Compressor - Vocal Booster
- and then: Studio Reverb (yes for effect, for this project). That brings the levels down, for sure.
- At this point, I have to "adjust amplitude" upward so that my levels get somewhere close to 0db. I assumed I was doing something wrong, having to do this last step?

View attachment 102583

Your recording level is about right. Any hotter (preamp gain) and you'd probably risk clipping your peaks.

0db in your daw is the absolute limit which you can not pass.
It's not necessarily a target although, if you do want your material to be as loud as is possible, then I guess it is.
Really, though, the target would be to get the RMS as high as possible whilst ensuring that peaks never attempt to go beyond 0.

Average levels are what make something seem loud; That's why we use compression; In simplest terms if you're forcing the loudest parts to be not as loud, everything else sounds louder relative to them.

In short, I don't think there's anything wrong with your recording, or your process.

Listening closely there is some small amount of audible hiss; Whether that's a problem or not is really down to your judgement.
If it's not, stop reading here. :)

Going back to what Dave mentioned...
The source of noise is before the computer (most likely the preamp) so you want your analog signal, from the microphone, to be hot and well above that noise level.
With analog tape the noise source was generally the medium, so in that case you wanted your preamplifier output as hot as possible.

Suggestions for your noise.
A: Increase the source signal : A more sensitive microphone.
B: Increase the source signal : Speak louder, or closer. (might not be possible).
C: Increase the source signal : Use a cloudlifter or similar before the preamp/interface.
D: Lower the noise : High quality preamplifier, assuming that's where the noise is coming from.

Make sense?
 
I would really like you to do that plug pull test to determine how much the pre is contributing to the noise.

Dave.
 
That's a pretty decent sound apart from the big plosive on 'pillow'. That's just mic technique - you need to learn to talk across the mic rather than into it. It would be good to find the source of the noise as any compression would probably make the noise more obvious. The other thing to think about is your recording environment - more acoustic treatment may be needed if you go for a more expensive microphone.
 
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