unbalanced vs balanced patchbay
- Thread starter mofat
- Start date
Steenamaroo
...
Hey,
I hope you get an insightful answer because I can't think of a reason other than, maybe, cost?
I suppose if you only have balanced patchbays and you have balanced jack in and unbalanced jack out (for whatever reason) you'd effectively be grounding the ring of the incoming signal through output sleeve.
Are the possible repercussions there, where an unbalanced patchbay would just have left the ring disconnected?
I don't know, but I know a few guys who do.
I hope you get an insightful answer because I can't think of a reason other than, maybe, cost?
I suppose if you only have balanced patchbays and you have balanced jack in and unbalanced jack out (for whatever reason) you'd effectively be grounding the ring of the incoming signal through output sleeve.
Are the possible repercussions there, where an unbalanced patchbay would just have left the ring disconnected?
I don't know, but I know a few guys who do.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
One reason may be for the unbalanced gear that is out there...so economics being what they are, one less wire, one less connection on the bay...etc. Also, most home/consumer gear is unbalanced, though I don't know who ever needed/used a bay in their home stereo setup, but I have seen a lot of home/consumer gear end up in pro audio setups.
There's nothing wrong with un balanced gear...or unbalanced wiring and connections...they just don't handle noise issues well, but if you wire everything right, and keep it fairly short distance...unbalanced works perfectly fine.
Way back in the day...I had some 1/4" TEAC/TASCAM unbalanced bays.
These days, I use only balanced bays, and for my unbalanced gear, I just wire it accordingly so it can work alongside the balanced stuff. Never been a problem.
There's nothing wrong with un balanced gear...or unbalanced wiring and connections...they just don't handle noise issues well, but if you wire everything right, and keep it fairly short distance...unbalanced works perfectly fine.
Way back in the day...I had some 1/4" TEAC/TASCAM unbalanced bays.
These days, I use only balanced bays, and for my unbalanced gear, I just wire it accordingly so it can work alongside the balanced stuff. Never been a problem.
Farview
Well-known member
There is no need for an unbalanced patchbay. A balanced patchbay with an unbalanced cable/signal plugged in will pass that signal and it will remain unbalanced. A balanced patchbay does both.
The only reason I can think of to have an unbalanced patchbay is if you want an RCA patchbay...
The only reason I can think of to have an unbalanced patchbay is if you want an RCA patchbay...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
If you have a lot of balanced gear...then it will unbalance it, but may still work...though not something I would do.
If you have mostly unbalance gear...then just use it, unless you want to toss it and get a balanced one to accommodate both.
Yes, a "balanced" patch bay will pass unbalanced signal perfectly well but I use " " because things like patch bays and cables are not really balanced. Only a SYSTEM, output, connectors, cable and input can be said to be balanced. You can easily balance the output of consumer gear by the dodge of "impedance" balance which is done by connecting a resistor, equal to the output impedance of the piece of gear from ring to sleeve. It is not unfortunately so easy to create a balanced INput* but if you don't have many you could look at some 10k-10k bridging transformers. Those from OEP are very good value.
Unbalanced setups are of course prey to more induced noise but things are vastly better these days because devices generally have sensibly low output impedances. Often around 100 Ohms this reduces noise pickup greatly but there is a very simple "trick" that can be done to OP OPamp that gives a virtual ZERO OPZ! The difference in hum pickup and crosstalk from 100R to 0R can be many dBs, often up to 20dB. Very odd that virtually no manfctr of AIs, mixers et al employs such a simple and cheap technique?
*It is also strange that, AFAIK nobody makes a wee box of say 1/2 doz balanced inputs to unbalanced outputs? In these days of SMTech' and uber cheap and reliable wall rat supplies you would think SOMEONE would see the potential?
Dave.
Unbalanced setups are of course prey to more induced noise but things are vastly better these days because devices generally have sensibly low output impedances. Often around 100 Ohms this reduces noise pickup greatly but there is a very simple "trick" that can be done to OP OPamp that gives a virtual ZERO OPZ! The difference in hum pickup and crosstalk from 100R to 0R can be many dBs, often up to 20dB. Very odd that virtually no manfctr of AIs, mixers et al employs such a simple and cheap technique?
*It is also strange that, AFAIK nobody makes a wee box of say 1/2 doz balanced inputs to unbalanced outputs? In these days of SMTech' and uber cheap and reliable wall rat supplies you would think SOMEONE would see the potential?
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I have two 8x8 channel boxes that will switch from balance to unbalanced and +4 to -10...and vice versa...but these are older boxes, though you can find current manufacture stuff out there that does it...it's just that these are odd/specialty items...you don't see then advertised a whole lot.
homestudioguy
Well-known member
A couple of things:
I just bought the $119 Samson Rackmount Patch Bay that has balanced/thru etc switches on the front panel. Built like a tank. Very Nice.
At this past June's Sweetwater Music Gearfest in Indiana, I suggested to an ART Representative to make a patch bay that was partially XLR, partially TRS, partially RCA and partially SPDIF or even just XLR and TRS. Who knows?
I have a very old Carvin patchbay that did everything I needed it to do and it was well below $100. Unfortunately, it is no longer in production.
I just bought the $119 Samson Rackmount Patch Bay that has balanced/thru etc switches on the front panel. Built like a tank. Very Nice.
At this past June's Sweetwater Music Gearfest in Indiana, I suggested to an ART Representative to make a patch bay that was partially XLR, partially TRS, partially RCA and partially SPDIF or even just XLR and TRS. Who knows?
I have a very old Carvin patchbay that did everything I needed it to do and it was well below $100. Unfortunately, it is no longer in production.