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Thread: That's IT!!! I've had it!!!

  1. #21
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    A lot of people will disagree with me. I use VSTs but VERY sparingly. Not because they arent great. But I have found that if your recordings rely a lot on VSTs to get the sounds you want, if you ever loose them--and it can happen--your original tracks are no good. At least not until you go in an apply another VST to all of the tracks that used it. If you record the sound you need going in, its there, done for as long as you have the wave files. I use various reverbs, and compression as post processing. Sometimes I'll use a particular effect. But I never use midi to create another instrument.

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  3. #22
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    Update!!!

    Good evening one and all!

    I'm just getting ready to start from scratch to try getting my MIDI modules working.

    Here is a list of all my gear, starting with my PC:

    System:
    Processor: Intel Core i7 3770 CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.40 GHz
    Installed Memory (RAM): 8 GB
    System type: 64-Bit Operating System, x64-based processor.

    Here is a list of my MIDI Gear, starting with my MIDI controller:

    Roland PC-200 MIDI keyboard controller.
    M-Audio MIDISport 2x2 MIDI interface.
    Ketron SD 2 MIDI module
    Roland JV-1010 MIDI module

    Audio Interface:
    Mackie Pro FX 8 v2 8 Channel Professional Effects Mixer (USB)
    Alesis Monitor Speakers

    Software:
    Sonar Platinum
    Reaper: Still evaluating

    I have literally disconnected every wire that had going from one piece of hardware to another piece of hardware, starting at the keyboard MIDI controller. And now to reconnect, step by step. As I look at all the gear I have listed here, it looks like it should be a very easy task to do... on paper anyway.

    1: Keyboard controller's MIDI out to MIDIsport MIDI Interface's IN
    2: MIDISport MIDI Interface's OUT A to SD2 MIDI IN
    3: SD2 MIDI OUT to Mackie IN
    4: Mackie MAIN OUT to Alesis Monitor Speakers.

    * According to Mackie the mixer is not supposed to need USB drivers. However, when I start up both Sonar or Reaper a message comes up saying that it can't find the ASIO driver. My understanding from past experience is that you need to have the ASIO driver installed in order to record audio. If this is the case, I am unsure of where to find the driver. I'm afraid to install the wrong one. The closest I have come is "ASIO4All" which I haven't installed as of yet. I have seen a lot of posts saying that this driver shouldn't be used. Not sure why but I'm waiting to hear from someone here regarding this driver.

    At this point I think its better to concentrate on getting the SD2 up and running first, seeing as it is the easier module to connect to. Once I have it going I can then work at getting the Roland module to work as well.

    Two hours later:

    I'm very pleased to report that all my time and work today has rewarded me with success!!! At least as far as the Ketron and Sonar goes. I'm thinking that it was quite possible that I was plugging in wrong cables into wrong places. The cables were a total disaster behind the scenes. It was over an hour before I got them all pulled out to make it possible to actually see where they were being plugged in. Once I got everything going, I spend another hour playing around and reminding myself how many great sounds the Ketron has.

    My next move is to get the the Roland up and running.

    The MIDI keyboard controller OUT will go into the M-Audio IN (B)
    The M-Audio OUT (B) will go to the JV-1010 IN
    The JV-1010 OUT will go to the Mackie mixer (audio interface)
    The Mackie mixer's main out goes to the Alesis monitor speakers.

    If this setup works, I have a question to ask... How would I hook things up so that I won't have to switch cables to use one or the other module?

    I gotta thank all you guys who urged and persuaded me to trek on with my own gear instead of putting out $$$ for VST. I now think that I can still use free ones as well as the modules.

    I'll let you know how the JV-1010 thing works out.

    Bobby

  4. #23
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    Hey Bobby,

    My interface driver for my Alesis is ASIOFORALL and it work great.
    It's obsolete already??

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  6. #24
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    Hi Travis...

    Yeah, I know, huh? I installed the ASIO4ALL, and it seems to be working fine. Sonar found it right away. Now, I haven't done any audio since installing it but I'm thinking it should be OK.

    I got the Roland up and running!!! I certainly owe myself a hard kick in the butt for being so lazy about the cables. I should have pulled them all apart right from the beginning. If I did, I wouldn't have gone off on a rant here in this thread. The Ketron SD2 is a very neat piece of hardware. But the Roland JV-1010 is fantastic!!! I forgot about how many sounds it has, and that's without the expansion board that you can get for it. I would love to find one but it is so old - I think it was discontinued back in the early 2000s. In fact, it was already discontinued when I bought it. But it still is great. Believe it or not, in all of my frustration the other night, I was actually looking at a VERY expensive VST package. In all of the demonstrations I saw, the big thing about it was all of it's thousands of sound effects - more effects than instruments from what I could tell. Well, my Roland has a ton of effects as well as a lot of great instruments. For sure, not as many as the VST bundle, but still more than I will ever use. And the Roland didn't cost $600.

    Now, before I start putting everything back to where it is supposed to be, I need to have someone show me how to hook up both modules to each other in a way that I don't have to change the cables going to the MIDI controller when I want to switch from one module to the other. I'm thinking that it may have something to do with the "MIDI Thru" stuff on both modules but I haven't really a clue where to start.

    As usual, all help is very much appreciated!!!

    Bobby

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    Hi,

    Midi has 'channels' built in to the protocol so a midi keyboard sending on channel two will be ignored by a device that listens on channel one.
    Default settings on midi devices are generally 'omni' so, by default, everything should work with everything.

    If you have two hardware midi instruments, instead of patching the midi cable in and out as required, you can set your instruments to listen on channels 1,2,3 (etc..however many you have).

    Then, to choose what hardware instrument you're going to be playing, you tell your midi controller to send on channel 1/2/3 etc.

    The cable setup is
    keyboard midi output to first instrument midi input
    first instrument midi thru to second instrument input
    second instrument thru to third instrument input

    'thru' is like a splitter for midi, I guess - It sends on a copy of whatever is received at the input.

    Now, that's theory. Whether your specific midi devices all support this is another question.

    The other half of that is the analog audio return journey.
    You could either make sure that every hardware midi device is returning its audio output to an available audio input on the mixer/interface,
    or you could set up and audio patchbay that lets you quickly switch which device is returning.
    Again, I'm making general statements rather than checking your specific gear specs. Sorry....got a few things going on!
    ---------- Steenaudio Website ----------

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  9. #26
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    Hello Bobby,

    I'm really glad you're getting things sorted out! I don't know anything about modules so can't help you there, sorry.

    There are lots of other places with free VSTs. There are some synths and romplers that are incredibly good with any patch/voice/effect you can imagine. Some of the companies that normally charge for their VSTs occasionally have free ones. Sound Toys comes to mind. There is a newsletter that provides lots of good links to that sort of thing and other freebies. Here's the link: Bedroom Producers Blog - Freeware For Musicians!

    I signed up for that newletter years ago and have some great items from it. Some VST/VSTIs require an ilok account, which is a little more of a hassle but not too bad. Fortunately they are the minority.

    I think you'll find so many VSTs/VSTIs that you'll have a blast tinkering with them for a long, long time! All the best to you, Bobby!
    It's obsolete already??

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  11. #27
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    Thanks, Steenamaroo...

    I've had too much excitement for one day from getting both modules working.
    I'm a bit tired right now so I figure it best to leave well enough alone for now. Right now, I'm afraid to touch anything for fear that I might screw something up.
    But I will follow your instructions tomorrow before I carefully put the modules back in their proper place... one wire at a time.

    Bobby

  12. #28
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    Wires? Did you say WIRES???

    wires-jpeg


    Here's how everything looks right now, after getting everything working today. I really have to invest in a few shorter wires.

  13. #29
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    " I really have to invest in a few shorter wires. "

    Beware, a bit. Don't be tricked into buying costly specialist 'MIDI' cables, 5 pin all connected audio DINs are fine (but NOT 3 pin) .
    There is a variation, the 'crossover DIN' used waaaay ago to connect tape machines together for copying. Might work, never had one recently to try.

    You might even find some v old PC keyboard DINs? They work as well. Of course, if you want a REAL challenge, solder your own! If anyone wants to (go mad that is) you can use mic cable to pins 4 &5 pin 2 common shield (not actually needed) .

    Dave.

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  15. #30
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    Hi Dave...

    Actually, I know about cables and how I could sometimes buy something that could have been substituted for something else that would have been cheaper. But it took me a while to finally learn because I have a drawer that is packed with cables that I probably will never use.

    I've been dealing with a Canadian music store for a long time. With them, I save a lot of money by not having to pay the exchange rates that I would pay when buying from the US. They carry every cable, in every length known to mankind, and their prices are very reasonable. My problem is that all my cables are too long now because I had to move my mixer and modules to the other side of my desk. And so they are very close to each other. The shortest MIDI cable I have is 6' and I have a lot that are 10'. Cables that are 3' would be more than enough for my new setup, and I can get them for 4 or 5 bucks apiece, and with free shipping.

    I once attempted to make my own cables. It didn't go so well. The blobs of solder were so big that I couldn't get the metal screw piece over it. Others were shorting out. In my case I'm better off letting someone else make them for me.

    Bobby

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