Some newbie questions about recording vocals...

Xpred

New member
Hi everyone! I just found this awesome message board, and I feel I have a bunch of questions to ask. I've been singing for about 5 years, mainly karaoke and trying to record on the computer. I've been just messing around using a headset mike (heh, the ones you play games with) while using various programs like Sound Forge & Gold Wave to just "mix" the vocals into the backingtrack/karaoke/instrumental. My main interest is only vocal recording. I just love recording myself singing to an instrumental or karaoke. But now, I really want to step up to the plate and buy an ACTUAL mike all these years, and anything else necessary like a sound card. But I just have a whole bunch of questions (sorry if it spans multiple subjects) I don't know really where to start or post it, but here it goes:

1. Which microphone should I buy? I know this will differ from many people, but my budget is about $70 for a max microphone and for vocals only. I don't know much about microphones... all I have heard are the Shure and Audio-technica brands.

2. Do I need a sound card of some sort so that I can plug the microphone into my computer? My computer just has onboard sound with regular small hole jacks. My headset mikes (heh!) were I believe just regular 3.5mm or those smaller jacks (the red circle). I'm think there are XLR and 1/4" jacks that my computer certainly doesn't have, and perhaps I need a sound card or external accessory of some sort. Or a adapter converter maybe? Anyone know what's the cheapest one available? Will the sound also be affected if you use one of these converters (like XLR to 1/4" or vice versa or even one to 3.5mm)?

3. What's the proper way of mixing vocals into sound files? I never knew how. What I do is try to record the vocals in MONO format (this is somewhere I read) instead of STEREO. Then add some EQ to it like deeper bass and reverb, or whatever sounds good. Then I just go to SoundForge/GoldWave and click "mix"... I think I might need a multi-track editor instead of just pressing "mixing" it like this because it becomes one whole track. Multi-tracks with sound, vocals, and perhaps even background voices, would be so much easier to edit and change. But what is the actual way of mixing just vocals? What programs do you recommend?

4. What online retailers or even offline places do you recommend purchasing these equipment in terms of reliability, pricing, and inventory? Sorta like the newegg of audio-equipment, if you will (!)... ? Thanks.

That's about all the questions I have... I might have more in the future. I'm just learning right now trying to step up the game with only vocal recording. I just love singing anything and recording it down, but I don't know much yet. Hehe, thanks!
 
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Wow. Thats A Whole Bunch Of Questions.

I Dont Live In America, but i hear that www.musiciansfriend.com is the best place for beginner equipment, a lot of people i know online bought their mics their.

As For Recording, you'll probably want a condenser microphone to et some ecent quality vocals, so i'm guessing that $70 isnt going to help, but i cant say, as i havnt looked on that site.

You will also need a pre amp to connect the mic to the computer, i just found a usb pre amp, that just plugs straight into the usb port, but you will also need an xlr (mic)cable to connect to the microphone.

Once on the computer, the easiest programs to use for basic recording are cool edit pro or adobe audition. I can upload either for you to download, or you can just look on limewire etc.

I dont know whether that helps, but any more questions and im on aim and msn w/e.
 
Welcome!

Xpred said:
1. Which microphone should I buy? I know this will differ from many people, but my budget is about $70 for a max microphone and for vocals only. I don't know much about microphones... all I have heard are the Shure and Audio-technica brands.

a Shure SM58 will do you alright, but if you want quality vocals you'll have to spend more than that and you should look at Large Diaphagm Condesors. In your price range you should look at a Dynamic like a Shure SM58 or SM57, or the Sennheiser e835

Xpred said:
2. Do I need a sound card of some sort so that I can plug the microphone into my computer? My computer just has onboard sound with regular small hole jacks. My headset mikes (heh!) were I believe just regular 3.5mm or those smaller jacks (the red circle). I'm think there are XLR and 1/4" jacks that my computer certainly doesn't have, and perhaps I need a sound card or external accessory of some sort. Or a adapter converter maybe? Anyone know what's the cheapest one available? Will the sound also be affected if you use one of these converters (like XLR to 1/4" or vice versa or even one to 3.5mm)?

Yes and no. Yes you need a soundcard into your computer, no it won't do you much for pluggin a mic straight into your CPU. Generally your chain for vocals and a computer should look like this: Voice signal->Mic->Preamp->Interface(converter) and soundcard->CPU->recording program. An interface and a Preamp is what you'll need, and the cables are diferent for each one. Your stock soundcard on your computer is likely crap and you shouldn't use it...get a souncard/interface that's MADE for recording and you'll be set - look at M audio's website for examples. But to give you an example, my vocal chain might look like this sometimes: Voice-Rode NTK-Studio Projects 828-M audio Delta 1010-CPU-Cubase.

Xpred said:
3. What's the proper way of mixing vocals into sound files? I never knew how. What I do is try to record the vocals in MONO format (this is somewhere I read) instead of STEREO. Then add some EQ to it like deeper bass and reverb, or whatever sounds good. Then I just go to SoundForge/GoldWave and click "mix"... I think I might need a multi-track editor instead of just pressing "mixing" it like this because it becomes one whole track. Multi-tracks with sound, vocals, and perhaps even background voices, would be so much easier to edit and change. But what is the actual way of mixing just vocals? What programs do you recommend?

The proper way is to record it in a program that records...If it's a stereo signal you can record to 2 Mono channels or one stereo channel. EQ and effects aren't neccessary but can be used to make your recording sound better. Learn to use EQ and effects with practice...be careful! Don't do things to your recording you can't UNDO. There's no magic MIX button...mixing is a process of EQing, effecting, balancing (Pan) and adjusting the volume of all the tracks you've recorded. This also takes practice. Presets can help you but usually they're very generallized and not 'great'...just good enough. I use Cubase, but there are LOTS of different programs out there...read around and you'll learn them.

Xpred said:
4. What online retailers or even offline places do you recommend purchasing these equipment in terms of reliability, pricing, and inventory? Sorta like the newegg of audio-equipment, if you will (!)... ? Thanks.

I like Music123, Zzzounds is alright I've heard. But I buy lots of stuff used from here, gearslutz.com and from ebay. Be careful and do research first! Don't randomly buy things, and make sure wherever you buy from has a good return policy! Also, try to test things out to hear if it sounds right for you BEFORE you buy it and don't like it. There are lots of reviews that'll tell you whether something is worth it, and you can even ask here what a good price and reliability for a product will be!

Gald you've made it to this site! My advice is try to search and find the answers to your questions BEFORE you ask them here...you can learn a lot from the guys here! I spent MONTHS reading and learning before I started asking questions...Hope you enjoy all your recording experieces!


Jacob
 
Hmm... I see. How much do you think it would cost all together? I don't have much of a budget. Maybe a maximum of $120 or so including all supplies. I was thinking a $50 microphone, then a pre-amp of some kind and/or sound card with the proper cables.

I found this microphone, but not sure if it would be any good:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/273156/

I don't know anything about sound cards/pre-amps/phantom powers and what not needed. Can anyone help me out to find the appropriate supplies for that money wise?
 
Xpred said:
Hmm... I see. How much do you think it would cost all together? I don't have much of a budget. Maybe a maximum of $120 or so including all supplies. I was thinking a $50 microphone, then a pre-amp of some kind and/or sound card with the proper cables.

I found this microphone, but not sure if it would be any good:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/273156/

I don't know anything about sound cards/pre-amps/phantom powers and what not needed. Can anyone help me out to find the appropriate supplies for that money wise?

A condensor mic like that will do ok for vocals, but you're still better off with a used SM58 in my opinion! As for a budget of $120, it makes it hard to do. If you're honestly wanting good results you won't likely be %100 satisfied with what you'll get for your 120...My suggestion would be to wait and save until you can get what you want! for the signal chain I mentioned, some low-end but quality gear to fill that chain would be: (new prices)

voice (free)-Shure SM58 (100), SP C1 (200), MXL V67 (100), SP B1 (100)-M audio DMP3 (150), EH 12AY7 (?)-M Audio Audiophile (100-200), Presonus Firebox (250-firewire needed, but also has pre's built in!)-Cool Edit, Cubase, Logic...lots of programs and you should research how much each costs...

I would really recommend waiting till you have cash, the difference in spending 120 bucks and using what you already have is VERY minimal right now, but if you wait and save you'll get LOTS better recordings.

What are you going to be doing with your recordings anyway? Is this just simple demo work? With or without music? Is this fun or are you serious?

Jacob
 
Xpred said:
Hmm... I see. How much do you think it would cost all together? I don't have much of a budget. Maybe a maximum of $120 or so including all supplies. I was thinking a $50 microphone, then a pre-amp of some kind and/or sound card with the proper cables.

I found this microphone, but not sure if it would be any good:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/273156/

I don't know anything about sound cards/pre-amps/phantom powers and what not needed. Can anyone help me out to find the appropriate supplies for that money wise?

That is a good mic, My friend recently bought it, nice sound.

As For a Pre Amp, I', Getting this.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/701368/

Straight to USB, easy to use, and has phantom power at theclick of a button.

As For soundcards I couldnt personally recomend the best for audio recording, however, on a small budget;
M Audio Audiphile 2496
And
Emu 0404

Are probably your best bet. Decent and Cheap.
 
My main interest is only for fun, really, but serious fun. I've been just using crappy mikes plugging into my computer for about 5-6 years, and just trying to sing using karaokes, instrumentals, and backing tracks. However, I just want to use some better equipment because my ultra cheap desktop mike right now can't record much of the deeper sound frequencies I wanted. My main focus is only recording vocals (I already have the main sound files ala karaoke or backingtrack, just need to record the voice and blend it in), but using a higher quality method than the one I'm currently doing... or at least try to imitate/mimic studio quality using the cheapest, but most effective way possible. Isn't there some easy way I could perhaps pull it off?
 
Xpred said:
My main interest is only for fun, really, but serious fun. I've been just using crappy mikes plugging into my computer for about 5-6 years, and just trying to sing using karaokes, instrumentals, and backing tracks. However, I just want to use some better equipment because my ultra cheap desktop mike right now can't record much of the deeper sound frequencies I wanted. My main focus is only recording vocals (I already have the main sound files ala karaoke or backingtrack, just need to record the voice and blend it in), but using a higher quality method than the one I'm currently doing... or at least try to imitate/mimic studio quality using the cheapest, but most effective way possible. Isn't there some easy way I could perhaps pull it off?

Easy is usually crap when it comes to recording. Good quality can be had for not much compared to 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. You can get good for 500 bucks, but for 120 you're not stepping up from your computer mic. For a step up you really should wait until you have enough budget. Think of it this way, your sound is only as good as your weakest link. If you buy top of the line gear, but use Cheapo cords you'll get a cheapo recording! If you use crappy gear all the way through you'll get crappy results. If you only spend 120 bucks you'll likely be getting the signal chain items at about $20 per item and you'll only get 20 buck sound. However, IF you wait and spend 100 bucks per item you'll get $100 sound you'll get those results...if you spend $200, $500, $2000 per item you're results are exponential! You can get GREAT results if you're wise and spend your money to get the BEST gear in your price range, but your results will only be as good as your price range allows...for 120 bucks you're not getting anything better than your 20 dollar mic and 20 dollar computer soundcard...

Jacob
 
OK. I was wondering what the kind of cables and things are needed. Here is what I understand.... so the mic's XLR or 1/4" cable goes into the pre-amp and the pre-amp goes into the computer. Where does the sound card come into play?

Also, I went to Guitar Center today. They are having a Christmas sale with a "Condenser Mic and USB Interface/Preamp Package" with the M-Audio MobilePre USB powered interface and preamp & 2 MXL990/991 studio vocal mic pack (one instrument/one vocal), plus Ableton Live recording software for $200. But the associate I talked would give it to me for even cheaper, $180. Would this seem like a reasonable deal? Thanks once again, guys.
 
Xpred said:
OK. I was wondering what the kind of cables and things are needed. Here is what I understand.... so the mic's XLR or 1/4" cable goes into the pre-amp and the pre-amp goes into the computer. Where does the sound card come into play?

Also, I went to Guitar Center today. They are having a Christmas sale with a "Condenser Mic and USB Interface/Preamp Package" with the M-Audio MobilePre USB powered interface and preamp & 2 MXL990/991 studio vocal mic pack (one instrument/one vocal), plus Ableton Live recording software for $200. But the associate I talked would give it to me for even cheaper, $180. Would this seem like a reasonable deal? Thanks once again, guys.

It's probably a pretty decent deal...what you get there is a mic->pre and interface-computer-software package.

Cables that get usually get used: Mic to pre=XLR, pre to interface=trs, interface to computer can be firewire, usb, or any number or other special cables - depends on the interface. usually if there's an instrument in on your pre you should use a normal ts (instrument/guitar) cable.

To answer your first question, the interface unit can contain a soundcard (eg: delta 1010 PCI card), or it can be usb (Mible pre) or it can be firewire (firebox). Your stock card will be bypassed with some of these interfaces.

Jacob
 
Xpred said:
So, does that mean I would not really another sound card if I get this package?


That would be a good starter package, and that will be all that you need to get going....... so go buy it!
 
Awesome! So the the mic, the usb pre-amp, software, and cables are all I need to get started? If so, that's great! I didn't have to spend too much on it... exactly what I needed. Do you USUALLY need a soundcard, then or would it just be wise to spend it on these type of all-in-one solutions? When would you need a sound card?
 
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Xpred said:
Awesome! So the the mic, the usb pre-amp, software, and cables are all I need to get started? If so, that's great! I didn't have to spend too much on it... exactly what I needed. Do you USUALLY need a soundcard, then or would it just be wise to spend it on these type of all-in-one solutions? When would you need a sound card?

You don't always NEED a souncard, but it depends on what you're doing...that USB interface/pre will only get you so far. Since that package will take you as far as you want to go right now, than go for it! But remember that 'if' you ever want to go farther you'll need to upgrade.

As for if you would get a better sound card then? Maybe. But then again, maybe by then soundcards will be obsolete, and we'll all be recording without preamps, interfaces and cords. Maybe then we'll just have to think our music into being, and then we'll make virtual CD's with virtual instruments and equipment. Where was I going with this anyway?

Jacob
 
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