Scarlett 2i2 Microphone Pairing

N

nintendoeats

New member
Hello. I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which I use for casual recording of electric guitar, classical guitar via microphone and vocals. I bought it thinking "Hah, this will sound totally passable with my SM58". Lo, twas not so, for the SM58 is far too quiet when plugged into the 2i2. "Ok, I'll buy a microphone preamp". Hmm, I can't even find a recommendation for a mic preamp below 300 USD. That's a bit excessive considering I do a few recordings a year for special projects in which I need decent, but not exceptional, audio quality.

My thought then was that I would buy another microphone in the 100 - 150 dollar range. The thing is, I don't really understand why the SM58 is so quiet with the 2i2 and I'm worried about buying another mic that will have the same problem. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with impedance, but I am nowhere near confident enough to make a purchasing decision.

I would really appreciate some guidance here. I'm starting from a point where I more or less understand the rules for headphone electrical characteristics, but my electrical knowledge is not sophisticated enough to apply that to microphones.

Thanks!
 
You may want to try MICs with active circuitry - using voltage from your interface. Commonly referred to as LDC and SDC - large condenser and small condenser
 
garww said:
You may want to try MICs with active circuitry - using voltage from your interface. Commonly referred to as LDC and SDC - large condenser and small condenser
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will do some reading on those. I did not know that such things existed.
 
LDC with isolation mount as the are sensitive
images


SDC on stereo bar
images


Some people like sdc on acoustic guitar
 
I'm seeing that. I fall very much on the side of flat response, which seems to be more the domain of the SDC (all other things being equal etc etc).

Right now I'm looking at 3 options:
A combo MXL3003A, MXL 603S and PS400 power supply. Adds some potentially useful versatility, given that I'm not planning to buy more mics any time soon.

A pair of MXL 603Ss. Not that much more expensive than one, would allow for both stereo guitar recordings and simultaneous vocal and guitar.

A single Rode NT5. More expensive, than the pair of 603Ss, but has a a much flatter response curve which makes it more general purpose in my mind (Of course that's according to the data sheet, who knows really).

Do you have any thoughts on these options?
 
I did a search for clips on the various mics and using that failry unscientific method concluded that the Sterlings were not something I would pick over the Marshall microphones, and that the NT5 probably isn't a great fit. I think I'm going with the 603/3003 combo which is over 100 $CAD cheaper than the Sterlings.

Thanks very much for your help!
 
nintendoeats said:
I did a search for clips on the various mics and using that failry unscientific method concluded that the Sterlings were not something I would pick over the Marshall microphones, and that the NT5 probably isn't a great fit. I think I'm going with the 603/3003 combo which is over 100 $CAD cheaper than the Sterlings.

Thanks very much for your help!
Click to expand...

In the 'cheap but good' bracket the Behringer C1 SDC gets (remarkably!) a very good rep but I am a little worried about your failure with the 2i2/SM57 combination? This smacks to me of a bit of a lack of understanding of gain staging and recording levels.

Yes the 57 is insensitive and I have never had a 2i2 (got an 8i6) but I doubt its pre amp is any worse than the one in my Native Instruments KA6 and might have a smell more gain? Using the KA6 with the mic gain flat out and a 57 about a foot from the guitar (a not ever so loud Turner) I can get -20dBFS on my recording software, usually Samplitude SE8 but Audacity will show the same levels. Assuming you are recording at 24 bits (44.1kHz unless you are weird) the dominant source of noise will be your room unless you are VERY lucky in your 10/20!

If you have NOT spent the money yet, please try this, 2i2 at max gain and report back with a clip. (MP3 at 320k)

All that ^ said, I personally prefer SDCs on acoustic guitar and have used AKG Perception 150 (now P170) but guitarist son, when he was here, liked the dynamic better! But then the Turner is not a 'boomy' guitar and quite bright and he has far better HF hearing than I!

OOPS!! The Berry C1 is an LDC! I am sure they do a wee one? Looking now (although the C1 would be fine IMHO)
Dave.
 
What sm57 : ) Generally, I don't remember Classical guitar hitting the meters like steel strings
 
garww said:
What sm57 : ) Generally, I don't remember Classical guitar hitting the meters like steel strings
Click to expand...

It won't 'hit the meters' because VU meters don't start to register until about -20VU but (as well you know!) -20dBFS is a perfectly workable digital level.

And, FCS DO get a bit systematic G! You cannot mention the SM57 and levels without specifying the pre amp type!

My lad has a 'concert classical' guitar over in France and he says it is bloody loud!

Dave.
 
Attached is son on classical in La Belle..

Not sure of the mic etc but strongly suspect it is a £40 USB LDC. He will have used a shitbitrate so apologise for the rough sound but I think this demonstrates that classical guitars kick a bit of butt?

Dave.
 

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He don't have a 57. And I've had cat gut and nylon since the mid-sixties. I know what they can do and I could keep up with two hillbillies on steel string. But if you say Classical guitar, it's often more like a string quartet doing chamber music
 
garww said:
He don't have a 57. And I've had cat gut and nylon since the mid-sixties. I know what they can do and I could keep up with two hillbillies on steel string. But if you say Classical guitar, it's often more like a string quartet doing chamber music
Click to expand...

Oh! FFS! Read my other post! He HAS recorded a Turner narrow neck guitar WITH a 57 and my KA6 and YES, low in level but YES quite usable.

And I doubt the USB cheapy is AS good for noise as a 57 and the very low noise KA6 pre amp. The F'rites are KNOWN to have very clean pres.. You really do seem incapable of retaining a logical stream of thought for very long?

Dave.
 
nintendoeats said:
Hello. I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which I use for casual recording of electric guitar, classical guitar via microphone and vocals. I bought it thinking "Hah, this will sound totally passable with my SM58". Lo, twas not so, for the SM58 is far too quiet when plugged into the 2i2. "Ok, I'll buy a microphone preamp". Hmm, I can't even find a recommendation for a mic preamp below 300 USD. That's a bit excessive considering I do a few recordings a year for special projects in which I need decent, but not exceptional, audio quality.

My thought then was that I would buy another microphone in the 100 - 150 dollar range. The thing is, I don't really understand why the SM58 is so quiet with the 2i2 and I'm worried about buying another mic that will have the same problem. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with impedance, but I am nowhere near confident enough to make a purchasing decision.

I would really appreciate some guidance here. I'm starting from a point where I more or less understand the rules for headphone electrical characteristics, but my electrical knowledge is not sophisticated enough to apply that to microphones.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hold on, hold on! What dBfs reading are you getting with the SM58? Many newbies think you need to be up in the -2dB range, which is not the case.
 
mjbphotos said:
Hold on, hold on! What dBfs reading are you getting with the SM58? Many newbies think you need to be up in the -2dB range, which is not the case.
Click to expand...


Yes Mike. I sort of alluded to that but did not make myself very plain. (Can you catch 'G's disease' over the web?!)

Dave.
 
I'm not the one calling the sm58 a sm57. hah

No, I wouldn't look to record my nylon strings with a sm58
 
nintendoeats said:
Hello. I have a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which I use for casual recording of electric guitar, classical guitar via microphone and vocals. I bought it thinking "Hah, this will sound totally passable with my SM58". Lo, twas not so, for the SM58 is far too quiet when plugged into the 2i2. "Ok, I'll buy a microphone preamp". Hmm, I can't even find a recommendation for a mic preamp below 300 USD. That's a bit excessive considering I do a few recordings a year for special projects in which I need decent, but not exceptional, audio quality.

My thought then was that I would buy another microphone in the 100 - 150 dollar range. The thing is, I don't really understand why the SM58 is so quiet with the 2i2 and I'm worried about buying another mic that will have the same problem. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with impedance, but I am nowhere near confident enough to make a purchasing decision.

I would really appreciate some guidance here. I'm starting from a point where I more or less understand the rules for headphone electrical characteristics, but my electrical knowledge is not sophisticated enough to apply that to microphones.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Not for nothing..........are you sure you have a genuine SM58? The most faked mic of all. Where did you buy it from? It should be somewhat more quiet than many mics.........but not to the point where it's not usable for what you're trying to do.
 
I've already pulled the trigger on the combo, but I thought I would do a recording anyway, just so those were out there. Some googling suggests that I am not the only person to have issues pairing these two devices, but can't hurt to have data out there right?

Since I just needed to a do a quick recording I set it up on the floor with a stubby stand instead of in front of a chair like I usually do. This an awkward playing position, but I was able to get much closer to the mic and point it more directly than normal. The volume was actually not bad at a foot from the sound hole with the gain cranked. It doesn't sound great (after all, the SM58 is intended as a stage mic), but it is indeed passable.

I put together my normal playing setup and deliberately positioned the mic in a similar arrangement and got it to a level that was actually alright:



I tried something quieter, more like I was doing over the weekend, and that was really where the issue became prominent (thought not quite as bad as it was):



So it seems like I was having mic positioning issues. Still, I don't feel bad about buying new mics. It really does struggle with quiet passages and the bass consumes much of the detail (though not as badly as with the other mic I wound up using for my weekend project). I was just using it because I already had it, and I felt a little silly using it for recording anyway.
 
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