Recording a (digital) keyboard

joey2000

joey2000

New member
Not quite sure I understood this as well as I thought, which wasn't saying a bunch in the first place :( OK assuming I have a keyboard and other equipment probably equipped necessary (AI, MIDI connections etc etc):

Let's see:

1. I can record it MIDI-wise. eh. I might muck with that at some point, but I'd prefer to simply record the actual performance.
2. I can set up a mic and record it basically like I would any other instrument. That seems odd to me though as with the keyboard I should have a "direct" way to record it which bypasses all the usual problems and concerns of doing so.

If I hook up keyboard > AI > PC (DAW), can I do a direct recording which is NOT MIDI, as I was assuming all along?
 
Most keyboards have a left and right line output. That is what you would plug into the interface.

If you record the midi information, you are only recording the performance, not the sound. You will have to use a get instrument to make the sound.

You are correct, miking a keyboard is stupid.

If you don't have line outputs, you can use the headphone jack, you will need to get an adapter that goes from stereo male 1/4 to left and right mono 1/4.
 
Yes....it's relatively EZ once you get past the learning curve of setting your audio interface to send tracks to your recording software (DAW) .....Once your AI is sending audio signals to your daw...any audio signal you send to the AI goes to the DAW.....Think of the AI as your "digital" amp and your Daw as your "digital" ears and multi track tape machine...You plug in your instruments analog "audio out" cord or cords if it's a stereo signal into the AI and then adjust the settings in your Daw to your liking then press record.....Yee haw!

Don't know what recording software you are using or planning on using but I would say a majority of the HR.com homewreckers use Reaper......It's waaaaaaay powerful and waaaaaay cheap and waaaaay cool.....once you get past the learning curve of using the damn thing....Ton's of help here, at the Cocko's forum (Reapers website) and on UTUBE...

Some keyboards like my Yamaha MOX8 have a built in AI which allows me to directly hook up my keyboard to my computer via usb and roll....in my case as a "solo recording artist" ( I use that term very loosely) the mox has 2 stereo outs and 1 stereo in where I can input any 2 audio sources I choose.....guitars whatever... One of the two stereo outs is a stereo out of the internal sounds the other stereo out is of whatever I used the stereo input for...
 
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Never any fast rules, but,, The consumer keyboard will have built in speakers and only headphone out for audio. Possibly MIDI over USB and DIN.

Stage Pro will need audio out to be amplified and can have MIDI.

Across the "keyboard" board, USB can be digital audio, also. The USB can be expanded into a Interface. Extra inputs and outputs and s/pdif out. Now one one my boxes has the XLR jack on top and ships with a gooseneck MIC. Also with in/out jacks, you can create a feedback loop.

Over USB, the driver tells my DAW I can record a couple ways, and I can choose record Audio and MIDI at the same time and it sets up the tracks and routing. Plus the driver can be VST/i and stand alone.

You have to read the manual to know specifics - even from one model to the next. My last purchase was a Roland JX-03 Module that can be docked to a matching mini keyboard. It has a runt speaker and runs off 4-AA bat.. It has stereo in, stereo out, Fones out, DIN in/out, and USB - whatever you want !
 
OK, thx, I guess I was just paranoid or not looking at it correctly, which I was in the first place. Somehow it seemed to me too easy maybe. :) I guess because it's a "direct" connection, unlike other instruments where you're capturing it via mic.
 
Well, you your are doing rock organ, you may still want to go audio out to your Marshall half-stack and MIC that
 
One thing you might want to do is see if there's an equalizer setting on your keyboard for adjusting its audio output. For instance, my cheap Yamaha models have a "MasterEQ" function that can be set to "Line Out 1" or "Line Out 2" for when the "PHONES/OUTPUT" jack is connected to external equipment.
 
Haven't bought the keyboard I'll be recording with yet but rest assured it will have all necessary ins/outs, thx!
 
Slightly OT, but there is just no reason not to record the MIDI data if you are able. Even if you are miking an amp or recording the output of an audio plugin. Just, why not record the MIDI as well? All it costs you is a minute to set up a separate MIDI track. What it gives you is options.
 
Robus said:
Slightly OT, but there is just no reason not to record the MIDI data if you are able. Even if you are miking an amp or recording the output of an audio plugin. Just, why not record the MIDI as well? All it costs you is a minute to set up a separate MIDI track. What it gives you is options.
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I know a ton of people use midi in recording. I know it's there and I use it to communicate certain things when I have to but going back to 1996 when I first tried using midi and a piano roll with Voyetra software....ugh! And IMO midi still sounds like midi......in regards to using it to trigger an instrument track......Ignorance is bliss??? As a musician I find just messing with recording a hassle and a rabbit hole that steals time from me playing and creating. I realize recording the midi track in of itself is really simple and once set up as a template just as easy as recording audio. My question is / what I'd like to understand is what key things would I use that midi information for that I am missing out on now by not having it there....I'm suspecting it is just another layer of rabbit hole hell but it's probably just another case of I just don't know what I don't know ....edjamacate pleeze
 
I wouldn't worry about that too much. One can be more of a MIDI Musician than another. When I joined Recording Review & Home Recording it wasn't for audio recording. hahah How boring is that ? Jeez, Louise

As Sherman goes back in the Time machine, one had to have a instrument for each voice

While the modern VST/i and hardware can have three or more voices going on at once, it's still not the same as MIDI to a rack load in hardware. So, in the modern DAW with VST/i, MIDI can have a track rack - moog, juno, OB6, , etc, adding what you can get out of a single VST/i. Commonly, building up a Pad sound. The MIDI performance is portable
 
What good would it be to record MIDI tracks at the same time as audio tracks?

(1) You can change the voice (tone, timbre, preset, patch, program, etc.) without having to perform the part over again from scratch-- just change the Bank Select and Program Change values, send the MIDI track to the keyboard to be played back, and record a new audio track from it.

(2) Or you can assign different virtual instruments to the MIDI tracks to see how they sound in comparison to your keyboard's voices.

(3) You can modify the MIDI events as needed to correct your mistakes-- wrong notes, bad dynamics, etc.-- without having to perform the part again from scratch.

(4) You can use the MIDI tracks with notation software to print out a score, as opposed to trying to transcribe your musical creation from audio tracks.
 
TAE said:
I know a ton of people use midi in recording. I know it's there and I use it to communicate certain things when I have to but going back to 1996 when I first tried using midi and a piano roll with Voyetra software....ugh!
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1996? Things are a LITTLE different now. :)

And IMO midi still sounds like midi
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And? It won't when you're done w/the final product.

in regards to using it to trigger an instrument track
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? Afraid you lost me.

Ignorance is bliss???
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In this case, I doubt it. For either of us. :)

As a musician I find just messing with recording a hassle and a rabbit hole that steals time from me playing and creating.
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With you there. Necessary evil though, if you're a songwriter.

My question is / what I'd like to understand is what key things would I use that midi information for that I am missing out on now by not having it there
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This is easy enough to find if you do a search, but basically the main benefit is you can edit the performance on your PC so it sounds the way you meant it to. :) Some might call that "cheating," and in a way it is...personally, I don't care. I'm going for the end result, which I could get if I do enough takes. But if I do some and I'm not getting it, screw it, and hey MIDI cmon down.

edit: SG beat me to it and laid it out far better.
 
TAE said:
I know a ton of people use midi in recording. I know it's there and I use it to communicate certain things when I have to but going back to 1996 when I first tried using midi and a piano roll with Voyetra software....ugh! And IMO midi still sounds like midi......in regards to using it to trigger an instrument track......Ignorance is bliss??? As a musician I find just messing with recording a hassle and a rabbit hole that steals time from me playing and creating. I realize recording the midi track in of itself is really simple and once set up as a template just as easy as recording audio. My question is / what I'd like to understand is what key things would I use that midi information for that I am missing out on now by not having it there....I'm suspecting it is just another layer of rabbit hole hell but it's probably just another case of I just don't know what I don't know ....edjamacate pleeze
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Midi doesn't have a sound, it's just the performance without the sound. You get to apply the sound to it later, which is the cool part.

If you don't edit the performance, and you play it back through the same keyboard sound that you were performing with, it will sound exactly like the performance you recorded.

If you were using scoring software and having that play the part, of course it sound robotic and strange. If you performed the part, it would sound like you performed it.
 
Thanks for all the explanations ..."" Cool! Back in the day my midi performance when played through a module IMO sounded robotic. Just have never gone back and messed with it.....guess I'm going to have to. Far from a perfect player and to get a good take takes some effort....if I can be proficient at editing the mistakes without a couple month learning curve I'm in
 
Well, modern controllers can be pretty precise for helping to squeeze out something believable. MIDI can still sound pretty robotic - like in film scores, etc..
 
The main reason MIDI can sound robotic is if it's written that way-- with exact timing of Note events, the same Note velocities all the time, and repeated measures that never vary during each iteration. When a human plays an instrument and records its MIDI output, the timing of Note events will vary from the exact beats, the Note velocities will vary from each other, and there will be small differences when measures are repeated-- and when the recorded MIDI is played back, it will sound just like when it was being performed by the person, as though it were an audio recording.
 
"1996? Things are a LITTLE different now. :)"

In some ways, but you can still spend days discovering your sound needed this particular Piano/Brass (from far across the room) mixed in to make it sound right.

One can enter this world with a Preset Patch Mentality, but that won't get you very far. We have to start somewhere, but a sound/instument preset is no different that a reverb preset
 
My current project is classical piano and some of the material was recorded with the real piano and some recorded in the pianist's home using MIDI to get it into Cubase, then in the studio this file plays back a VSTi piano sample. When we're electing and editing stuff for other uses, we've not been able to work out which is which - as in real piano and microphones or MIDI and a good sample player. The performance is revealing. Looking at the MIDI data the pianist is horrified that very few of his midi notes are on the beat. Chords are staggered very slightly - but when you analyse what he plays, you can see that his fingers very rarely go down at exactly the same time - so MIDI can be very accurate to what was played. The problem with MIDI has always been quantisation - i.e. moving notes onto the beat, or a grid set to ⅛. 1/16 or 1/32. Real players do not have quantisation, so with MIDI - turn it off! Then it's just a lossless recorder. With it turned on, roboticness can creep in quickly - as does velocity problems - some cheaper keyboards are simply not very sensitive - they produce very loud, loud, quiet and very quiet notes - and have trouble with ones in between. Good MIDI keyboards can create a much better replication of how the key was pressed.
 
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