Perhaps Silly Question: track level verse master level

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I've been using Cubase 5 to mix tracks recorded on a 4 track. In readying the songs for mastering I just focus on getting the mix right, and my mastering dude said so long as the mixes aren't clipping he can work with them. But I was wondering if there is anything whatsoever inherently wrong with having the master bus well above zero if the mix isn't clipping? I wouldn't think it would make any difference whatsoever when working with computers, though I believe it certainly would when working with analog tape and what not. Also, if the mix registers well below zero, you can just leave the final leveling up for the mastering engineer correct? Thank goodness for a place to ask "no duh" questions ha. I appreciate any input! Thanks a lot friends.
 
Leave the master fader at zero and mix to a target average level of about -18dBFS. If the mix level ends up a little higher or lower but isn't clipping it's fine.

Why is your master fader (assuming that's what you mean by "master bus") well above zero? What are the average and peak levels of the signal with it like that? What are the average and peak levels when you set the master fader to zero?

A lot of the time it doesn't matter if the signal is a bit too high or low as long as it's not clipping. But it does matter during tracking that the analog side of things is running in its optimal level range, and when using plugins that emulate analog hardware.
 
Leave the master fader at zero and mix to a target average level of about -18dBFS. If the mix level ends up a little higher or lower but isn't clipping it's fine.

Why is your master fader (assuming that's what you mean by "master bus") well above zero? What are the average and peak levels of the signal with it like that? What are the average and peak levels when you set the master fader to zero?

A lot of the time it doesn't matter if the signal is a bit too high or low as long as it's not clipping. But it does matter during tracking that the analog side of things is running in its optimal level range, and when using plugins that emulate analog hardware.

Hey thanks so much for the reply! Tracking is all done and I am quite satisfied with everything that way. I am just in the mixing and final mixdown stage now. The average peak levels can differ per song, but if the peak level is say, -1.0 db, is there anything wrong with just bumping it up closer to zero? Some songs I mixed to where the peak level is -0.2 or even -0.1. Again, this is not tracking, only mixing. The master fader is never well above zero per say, I just mean in cases where the mix comes out -2 or -3db below zero, is there any problem here? Can't I just bump it up on the master fader so it is closer to zero? Thanks a lot for your time good sir.
 
As long as it doesn't clip, it should make no difference what-so-ever. There might be a concern about inter-sample peaks, but even that isn't a huge deal.

Of course there is no reason what-so-ever to do that. The peak level doesn't really translate to overall volume, so even if you get all the peak levels of the songs the same, the volume from song to song could be all over the place.

The mastering engineer will have the task of making all the songs the same volume. So it is pointless to concern yourself with it.
 
At the levels you're talking about it makes very little difference. Even intersample peaks aren't going to be an issue because they're not actually included in the sample data that you're rendering and sending to your ME.

You don't want to get super silly with this, though. Fixed point formats do have a noise floor, it's just really low. So, if you're peaking even at -6 or whatever, you can turn it up with the master fader or in mastering stage or whatever. If you're peaking down around -80dbfs, though, you will end up turning up the digital noise floor, but something would have to be pretty fucked at some point in the mix process for that to happen.
 
I basically figured as much as what you guys have said, but wanted to be sure. Thanks a lot for your helpful replies!
 
Sorry to dredge this up again, but I have another question in this realm, and need IMMEDIATE assistance as I have a due date tomorrow with a mastering engineer. Any help would be so very very greatly appreciated. In regards to individual track volume, I started wondering about when I turn an individual track fader up well above 0 to set it in proper relation to the rest of the mix. In one instance, in Cubase, I had a track turned up as high as the fader would go, which is 6.02. Now, the track is not technically clipping by any means, however, I had a sudden paranoid thought that the fader turned that high could potentially clip somehow on the wave graphic if I had added gain through the processing option rather than turning up the fader. To test my paranoid hypothesis, I added 6.02 to the existing single track waveform and, sure enough, in the loudest places, it appears as clipping on the wave graphic. I of course undid this as it was only a test. But this has me especially paranoid now. The wave graphic is only a graphic right? So long as the numbers of the track are not clipping? To be clear, the graphic itself is not clipping, but I fear that the wave with the track fader turned up to 6.02 could potentially clip the single track somehow as it appears to when added via the separate gain, even though it is not clipping according to the numerical level, which peaks at -1.5 while the rest of the track is much lower than that. The single track is the primary track of the song, which is why it is so loud as an individual track.

I am just being paranoid right? The graphic means little compared to the numbers right? There's nothing wrong with cranking the individual fader if nothing is clipping numbers wise......right? Does the master fader work as an all things in one group bus, therefore making such worries obsolete? Please weigh in ASAP, I am in a big hurry, and will be much more so if I have to go back and check every song for such things. THANKS SO MUCH!
 
The graphic is only a picture. All of that processing is done with floating point math, so it is almost impossible to clip that way. It is possible to overload something downstream from that, but that is pretty unlikely as well.

The faders will end up where they need to be in order to get the mix you want. Having them way up or way down is only an indication of how high or low your recording level was in relation to where the track needs to sit in the mix. It is nothing to worry about at all.
 
Man, Farview, I hope you get paid well enough for all your continuous and studious help. Everytime I come here you are Johnny on the spot with genuine helpful advice, and, in this case and many others, much welcome reassurance. I'd buy you a beer or two if I could. I've been mixing non-stop for a couple weeks now and my brain is pretty fried, getting over-excited about every little thing ha. Thanks so much good sir, I greatly appreciate all you do on here.
 
If you want to avoid being "paranoid" then make sure you have a decent amount of headroom. 3, 6, 9, 15dB of headroom is not too much by any stretch.

NO headroom on the other hand... :spank:
 
Instead of turning that one track WAY UP, just put the faders lower for the other tracks!

This doesn't make any sense if the one track was simply recorded too quiet. Assuming the rest of the tracks are all coming in at a reasonable volume...

Pulling down 20 faders instead of turning one up past zero is a bit silly. It only makes sense if the entire mix is out of headroom.
 
OP, learn to use the gain function in your software. If you find yourself pushing a fader way up then the recording level on that track was probably way low. Using the gain function is like adjusting the recording level after the fact.

Solo the track, set the fader to 0 and adjust gain so the signal is averaging around -18dB (for most vocals/instruments) or peaking around -12dB (for percussive sounds). Do this with each audio clip that is out of the normal range before you start to mix.
 
That last little bit of fader travel really doesn't do very much at all - have you noticed. I'm firmly of the lower the others opinion - because then you have real control - fader movements that do do something. With everything pushed hard, it's difficult to regain control.
 
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