Patch bay for idiots help needed

T

trusso11783

Member
While I have been recording for 30 years in my home, I never used a Patch bay. I am completely overwhelmed by the information about them. I just built a new computer system that includes an 8 port audio interface. The connections are on the rear. Since I don't want to leave 8 cables dangling down permanently, I wanted to connect the patch bay to or so that I can just plug into the front of the patch bay. Sounds simple, doesn't it? Not when I google around for an answer though.

In my mind, I would plug a patch out of the back of the 1st patch bay port to the input of the 1st interface port. The patch bay would be a simple extension of the interface port.

Can this be done? I don't want to insert an effect or anything in between. Can someone give me an idiot version of what to do? I have a furman pb40 with a link below.

Mac OS X Server

Thanks for any assistance.
 
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You can definitely use it that way. Plug a cable from your interface into the back of your bay. Then when you plug a cable into the front side of the same jack it'll act like one single cable. Just make sure to only use either all top row or all bottom row. With some reading and experimentation you'll find out why. (Unless your jacks have a "thru" mode, in which case you can use all of them this way.)
 
+1.
I use a patchbay as you describe, simply for convenient close-to-hand ins and outs.

Mine allows me to use top + bottom as separate paths as long as every in has an out.
I'm not sure if that's the norm but as easlern says, for simplest operation just stick to top row or bottom row and you can't go wrong.
 
When you say "port", what kind of connector do you mean? Are they XLR or TRS?

It might be worth assembling a simpler patch panel. Patch bays may have more channels and features than you need, and perhaps the wrong connectors. If you need 8 XLRs a panel with those on the front and soldered cables on the back going directly to the interface would be a cleaner solution.
 
The entire point of a well designed patch bay is to be able to do your day to day work with NO cables in it at all. You wire it using normalling so that the common things are done for you and you can repatch to do the one-off stuff. I've got 16 line ins - and racks of kit I have collected over the years, and I have four synths/keyboards in the studio - one of them is used a lot, and it comes up on the patchbay, normalled to ch 1 and 2. The other keys come up on the top row further along my audio out 1,2,3 and 4 are on the top row right hand side, and 1 and 2 is normalled to the amp feeding the monitors, and 3 and 4 are normalled to an amp feeding headphones in the room next door. Two synths in the rack are normalled to input channels, but the others just appear on the top row. The feed to the other line inputs are all on the bottom row, with nothing on the top normalled to them, so if I ned them - that's when the patch cables get stuffed in. 90% of my work needs no cables.
 
trusso11783 said:
I just built a new computer system that includes an 8 port audio interface. The connections are on the rear.
Click to expand...

By 'port' I assume you mean 'input'?

I don't have anything to add other than what the others have said. However, I will take a moment to express my dissatisfaction with the design of many interfaces, specially the ones with combo inputs.

I still use a Presonus Firepod which has eight combo inputs along the front. I never gave its design much thought until I started looking for potential replacements. With the Firepod I can plug in eight mike leads, or eight jacks, or any combination thereof, and all at my fingertips. Outputs are at the back, where they need to be to keep leads out of the work space and where difficulty of access is not so critical (because output leads tend not to be swapped around that much).

Many new multi-input interfaces are, in my view, poorly designed. Often they have a couple of inputs on the front (sometimes none), and the rest around the back. So if you work with many differing set ups, you would be forever clambering around there to change things about. One answer is a patchbay, a senseless and expensive solution to poor design. And useless if you have combo inputs that you need to make use of.
 
Maybe an 8-channel XLR snake would be a better option. You'd be able to place the stage box close to the performer(s), and cables wouldn't be hanging from the front of the rack.
 
gecko zzed said:
Many new multi-input interfaces are, in my view, poorly designed. Often they have a couple of inputs on the front (sometimes none), and the rest around the back. So if you work with many differing set ups, you would be forever clambering around there to change things about. One answer is a patchbay, a senseless and expensive solution to poor design. And useless if you have combo inputs that you need to make use of.
Click to expand...


I have a saffire pro40 with the annoying setup you talk about. I like the device itself, but dislike the input method. 2 combo jacks up front and 6 in the back.
I was thinking about making a front panel with combo jacks to be able to access all from the front but still be able to use combo jacks.

I haven't really dug into it and wonder if that would be possible.

Dave? Would wiring up an xlr cable to a combo jack brought to another combo jack give you both xlr and trs? Or, a trs male (got plenty ) into a combo jack to another combo jack? In other words does a combo jack run both xlr and trs on one set of wires??
 
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RFR said:
I have a saffire pro40 with the annoying setup you talk about. I like the device itself, but dislike the input method. 2 combo jacks up front and 6 in the back.
I was thinking about making a front panel with combo jacks to be able to access all from the front but still be able to use combo jacks.

I haven't really dug into it and wonder if that would be possible.
Click to expand...

I wonder if there's internal switching that senses a 1/4" plug connected and engages the pad for line level input. That might throw a wrench into your plans.
 
Dont know.

Edit: Crap! From the manufacturer "automatically senses"
So yeah that plan's no good. So it would have to be 6 xlr and have the front two be either/or.
So even a normal patchbay would disable the combo feature. You'd be stuck with either line level trs or mic xlr.

Like chili says going round the back is a PIA
 
Wow! Thanks for all of the responses. I was sure no one would bother with this one.

To answer a few questions, when I say PORT, I meant the 1/4" input. I am also using the focusrite sapphire pro 40. I will use the front two inputs 90% of the time for a mic or guitar input. I only have one midi keyboard so I do not need to connect it for audio.

There will be times I will want to use 4 simultaneous inputs from my old Tascam 4 track deck so I can transfer the original tapes. That is why I wanted the patchbay so I wouldn't have to pull my desk out and reach in to connect the cables. So, I am leaving the front two Sapphire inputs as is and patching to the rear inputs 3,4,5,6.

For the heck of it, I tried it using one of the inputs and I got sound to work. I think it only worked when the front input was the top and not the bottom. I probably should have done this before posting here but the information out there is daunting.
 
What patchbay? Generally speaking, they can be changed between "normal" and "non-normal" configuration, and often a "half-normal" mode. When in normal mode The top and bottom of the back connectors are connected together, so when used with an insert of a mixer they pass the send back to the return without having to keep a patch cable inserted on the front to complete the loop. You would probably want non-normal so the top and bottom 1/4" connectors are independent.
 
Trusso, you might actually just need a 'Break Out Box' ? I built one of these a few years ago for musical son.

We have a Teac A3440 4trk OR machine and needed to get 4 tracks in and out to 2x M-A 2496 cards. The I/O for the cards is of course on RCA, but I had long since brought those up to a BOB on the wall above the computer using TRS jacks. Next I made an 8 way BOB to connect to the Teac, again RCAs. The whole signal exchange goes over about 5 mtrs of shielded cable and worked well. I had barely got the system working, not yet bought the second card, when son upped stick to La belle France!

On patch bays specifically, you do not want to mix balanced and unbalanced I/O (easy to 'impedance balance' outputs. Inputs, not so easy) .
You do not want to mix/adapt XLR I/O with jack. There is always the possibility of feeding +48V to a device that does not expect it. Poof! In any case, plugging 'DC' about can bugger monitors and ears!

Dave.
 
I'm 65 and grew up your lfe easieron analog equipment. started recording at home 5 years ago and thought about using external eq,compression, etc., but found in the box to be easier ,more efficient,and pretty darn good. DITCH THE PACTH BAY, save money, and make your life easier'
 
sparky123 said:
I'm 65 and grew up your lfe easieron analog equipment. started recording at home 5 years ago and thought about using external eq,compression, etc., but found in the box to be easier ,more efficient,and pretty darn good. DITCH THE PACTH BAY, save money, and make your life easier'
Click to expand...

Considering that he wants the bay for his multi channel computer interface...it's kinda part of his ITB rig. :D
 
Brand new to patch bays.
so I am getting an old Bittree FN patch bay and have a couple questions. Pictures and docs are hard to come by so I will just describe it for you-
24 TRS jacks in front, 24 other jacks in the back. I don't know the name but they have 3 pins each. Each of the front jacks are wired directly to the rear jacks. You have to bridge them together manually to get 1 TRS to another. Connectors are available for them. You could essentially take one port and split it into 3 others.(or so it would appear)

Here are my questions-
I have an 8 input recording console as well as a P.A.. I would like to have one input split to two outs on the patch bay so that I can either record, practice (through my rack system) or even both.
When you split an audio signal like that, doesn't it degrade the signal? if so, by how much? Is it an amplitude drop or does it just change the impedance?

I have 2 signal processors in the rack for guitar/keys and another processor for vocals and reverbs. One GSP is inserted into the effects loop of the other, they work just fine the way they are. This gives me two outputs for a guitar: left and right. The vocal processor only has one out.
Would it be better to have all the effects go into an effects mixer (that is currently collecting dust) and send that to the patch bay for output routing? Or just continue to let it collect dust?

Thanks
 
I would like to have one input split to two outs on the patch bay so that I can either record, practice (through my rack system) or even both.
When you split an audio signal like that, doesn't it degrade the signal?

Not much.. and not AT ALL if you are doing either/or. If you are recording AND going through your rack, you might run into some drop.. but I would try it and see. It wont be much.

Would it be better to have all the effects go into an effects mixer (that is currently collecting dust) and send that to the patch bay for output routing?
It really just depends on your goals, as far as 'better' is concerned. Are you recording these effects? Is it just for monitoring? I can't know.
 
The Low-down On Analogue Interfacing |

Read that ^. Re splitting a signal? Depends! The 'pro studio' connection regime is to have very low impedance signal sources and relatively high input, load, impedances. Ideally Zout ~ 100 Ohms and Zin >10,000 Ohms, a ratio of 100 to one and therefore even if the OP fed ten 10k inputs the signal loss would be barely detectable* This is called 'Voltage Signal Transfer'.

But not all sources are of low or even definable impedance! The passive electric guitar e.g. This is a mess and also sensitive to cable capacitance. (splitting to two cables sums the capacitance) . Other 'non pro' sources such as the cheaper synths might have less than optimum outputs. You can generally rely on everything having high enough input Zs though.

*Don't though! The resultant load would be only 1k and many OP stages will be distorted to a greater or lesser extent. TRULY pro gear would be fine but not your average $200 AI or mixer.

Dave.
 
Yeah, what ecc83 said.

For (almost) every active source, you can split to at least a couple of destinations with straight wire without much worry. The main concern there will be the potential to create ground loop buzz.

It (almost) never works to mix signals via straight wire, though.
 
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