The other guy in my band wants to record his electric guitar on his computer...

Armistice

Armistice

Son of Yoda
He's got a crappy amp and 2 small children so I'm assuming he's going to go the amp sim route rather than get on upset familial harmony by attempting to mic his amp.

He's asking me what he needs. I've never used amp sims, and he has nothing apart from the (Mac) computer at this point.

I'm assuming DI box and interface will do for hardware? You don't actually just plug yer Strat into the interface, right? It wouldn't have the signal... or do you? Totally not my area.

What do I tell him?

Cheers
 
Depends as far as the DI box/interface is concerned. I'm fairly certain many audio interfaces offer a button that will make at least one or two of your line input jacks into "instrument" input jacks. I'm pretty sure the M-Audio USB interface I bought for $200 3 years ago had it (don't recall the name of it), but I think the Focusrite 2i2 offers that as well. You'll just have to read the info on a manufacturer website to see if an interface you're looking at offers instrument level inputs. Saves your friend a couple bucks on a DI box for the time being.

As far as software, Garageband has some alright amp sims on it. If he's looking for anything fancier, Guitar Rig isn't bad. I've heard that the free Poulin amp sims/cab impulses aren't bad either, if he's looking for something more budget friendly.
 
MrWrenchey has pretty straight on. If has or will get an interface with instrument in, then next step is a good sim. But, with the right EQs, compression, effects, etc. one doesn't have to have an amp sim. Just something to get the sound you want.

I have been using IKM sims. They are fine, but I sometimes just take the signal and process them how I want. Really, and amp sim is just manipulating a wave sound anyway. So you could just try going straight in, then using various plug ins to see what kind of sound you can come up with.

Just a thought.
 
It sounds like he doesn't really know what he wants. It's all about sound - his sound. I'm not a guitarist, but I can hold my own - and I had a Behringer processor that had all the common 'sounds' in it, and I've got a Line 6 pedal version too - I can plug these into my computer, via analogue or in the line 6 case, via the USB output. As I'm not a 'real' guitarist, these boxes give me what I need - the tiny nuances of X or Y pass me by. I want a certain sound for a certain song, and they're in there somewhere. Not the real thing, but close enough for me!

Plug ins seem to be of variable quality from totally naff to rather good - but the ones I have tried are not that convincing, but maybe I just didn't find the right ones?
 
Although mostly of stock single coil pickups has a low output, I don't see any problem on doing it. Around 2002 when I started using DAW I didn't have a preamp an neither an AI (I still don't have this last one) and I used to record my guitar by plugging it directly into the mic input of the computer. And it was a crap guitar: an Washburn Lyon that was probably over-abused for some 13 years old kid and that I bought on a pawn shop. This guitar was really a thing (in the bad sense). Anyway, as far as I remember the recorded tracks sounded OK for me. Of course since it was twelve years ago I can't recall about the noise level but taking in consideration my own fairly notion of quality I really think that it wasn't bad at all.
 
Not my thing either but my son uses a Focusrite pre/interface, runs guitars through any effects into the F/rite and to his laptop........works fine for tracking in his bedroom and a damned sight quieter than micing up what's downstairs here in the shitpile that used to be our studio ;)

:cool:
 
If the guy is a guitarist he will surely have a pedal or three?
Therefore he can use same to interface with the mac MOBO sound, the pedal acting as a buffer and presenting a high impedance to the guitar and a lowish impedance to feed the (usually) 10k Zin of the computer.

But getting a signal into the machine is only 1/2 the battle, you need a decent feed to harken unto be that headphones or speakers. MOBO sound cards tend to be crap at this and in any case there is no analogue level control.

The above is the cheap solution. FAR better to get an interface and I would suggest the Steinberg UR22 over the 2i2 (sorry!).

Dave.
 
Armistice said:
He's got a crappy amp and 2 small children so I'm assuming he's going to go the amp sim route rather than get on upset familial harmony by attempting to mic his amp.
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Yeah, any basic interface with an instrument level input would be ideal.
You'd only need a DI box if you're limited to mic-level inputs.
Obviously, make sure he has the basic knowledge...Don't let him track in the red, or whatever.

Maybe he could use a basic amp sim for a bit of live feedback while tracking, but you could re-amp his guitar tracks later for the proper final tone?

See RAMI's recent thread on the topic if you're not sure about it.
 
Thanks guys. My advice will be "get an interface and an education"... and I'll leave it at that... and wait for the questions. There's no joint musical adventure outcome at stake here - he's going to have to nut some stuff out on his own.

Cheers:D
 
Armistice said:
Thanks guys. My advice will be "get an interface and an education"
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Great advice.

As an aside, I was involved in a collaborative recording project with a mate. I would record some stuff, send it to him, then he would add bits and send it back . . . and so on.

However, to make this work, we both used Reaper. It also helped that we both had the same interfaces too, though that was not critical.
 
ecc83 said:
The above is the cheap solution. FAR better to get an interface and I would suggest the Steinberg UR22 over the 2i2 (sorry!).
Click to expand...

They're the same price, but I haven't had experience with either, so if you say the UR22 is better, I'll trust ya on it!

Haha, Armistice, that's usually the best way to go about it. Just buy an interface and a book and tell him he's good to go. xD
 
MrWrenchey said:
They're the same price, but I haven't had experience with either, so if you say the UR22 is better, I'll trust ya on it!

Haha, Armistice, that's usually the best way to go about it. Just buy an interface and a book and tell him he's good to go. xD
Click to expand...

Hmm, maybe not "better" I have also not tried either (have a F 8i6 that seems good) Just that the 2i2 DID have high Z input overload issues and I have read of one or two driver/installation problems. In contrast the U22 has none of these reported AFAIK and it comes with Cubase and MIDI!
It is also up to £20 cheaper than the 2i2 if you look about.

Dave.
 
The Focusrite 2i2 doesn't have a "pad" button for instrument inputs so it can record guitars too "hot". Especially if you have active pickups or very hot passives. The Audiobox USB also does not have the ability to pad the inputs. I would recommend an interface with instrument level inputs (which is also known as "padding", but I'm not sure why). While the inputs on these interfaces might work just fine depending on your equipment I had troubles with using my Audiobox USB with some of my guitars...particularly my Ibanez Prestige which has very hot stock pickups.

The Focusrite 2i4 does have a "pad" button, but it costs a bit more.
 
Xcaliber said:
The Focusrite 2i2 doesn't have a "pad" button for instrument inputs so it can record guitars too "hot". Especially if you have active pickups or very hot passives. The Audiobox USB also does not have the ability to pad the inputs. I would recommend an interface with instrument level inputs (which is also known as "padding", but I'm not sure why). While the inputs on these interfaces might work just fine depending on your equipment I had troubles with using my Audiobox USB with some of my guitars...particularly my Ibanez Prestige which has very hot stock pickups.

The Focusrite 2i4 does have a "pad" button, but it costs a bit more.
Click to expand...

Focusrite have actually improved the instrument input headroom on current models but I don't think it is all that high even now (will see if I can check speccs)
To be fair to F'rte, if they did not put the gain and low noise (I have never heard of a noise problem? ) into the interface many people, maybe more, would moan that they can't get a decent level with a wimpy Strat!

In fact it is a bit of a non-problem* The fact is guitarists H.A.T.E. turning down the volume pot on their geetars! Now I can understand this if they have a 5mtr guitar cable but this is HOME Recording FFS! A 1.5mtr lead is not going to cause very much "tone suck" aka treble loss if you back the pot off a bit and you need to be pretty close handy to the AI in any case! If you want to be away from the PC you can use a 3mtr, probably longer USB lead.

Then again, I am always banging on about noobs learning some elektrikals! Making a high impedance 10 or 20dB attenuator (goes AI end) is beer into water.

* I say this not having any hands on experience of the 2i2 and of course guitars and pups vary enormously in their cable "sensitivity" but from first principles my words hold up.
If anyone in UK would like to lend me their 2i2 I will do some tests. They can borrow my 8i6 for the duration (NOT the KA6, they would NEVER give it back!).

Dave.
 
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ecc83 said:
Focusrite have actually improved the instrument input headroom on current models but I don't think it is all that high even now (will see if I can check speccs)
To be fair to F'rte, if they did not put the gain and low noise (I have never heard of a noise problem? ) into the interface many people, maybe more, would moan that they can't get a decent level with a wimpy Strat!

In fact it is a bit of a non-problem* The fact is guitarists H.A.T.E. turning down the volume pot on their geetars! Now I can understand this if they have a 5mtr guitar cable but this is HOME Recording FFS! A 1.5mtr lead is not going to cause very much "tone suck" aka treble loss if you back the pot off a bit and you need to be pretty close handy to the AI in any case! If you want to be away from the PC you can use a 3mtr, probably longer USB lead.

Then again, I am always banging on about noobs learning some elektrikals! Making a high impedance 10 or 20dB attenuator (goes AI end) is beer into water.

* I say this not having any hands on experience of the 2i2 and of course guitars and pups vary enormously in their cable "sensitivity" but from first principles my words hold up.
If anyone in UK would like to lend me their 2i2 I will do some tests. They can borrow my 8i6 for the duration (NOT the KA6, they would NEVER give it back!).

Dave.
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I'm sorry if I misspoke or spoke out of turn. I was just sharing my experience and what I've read from others on the Internet. I don't have any experience with the 2i2, but I do have an Audiobox USB and I experienced the issues stated above.

I'm sorry, I don't understand a lot of what you said, could be my ignorance, but I think if you're going to be recording guitars a home a lot it's worth it to spend the extra money for the interface with the instrument level input. While it might be ok to turn down the volume knob I don't see why we (geetarists) should have to if there's a solution provided by the "better" interfaces.

Just my $.02 on the matter.
 
I've also seen a lot of people talking about banging the rails on the 2i2, but I wonder if it's not just because it's a very popular interface. Both of the interfaces that I have with Instrument inputs (Tascam US1641 and PodStudio UX1) add about 9-10db of gain over the line inputs, and I can get both of them to clip with hot humbuckers and/or series combinations pickups.

For this reason, I've gone to just running through a buffered pedal into a line input. This can put the level a bit low for the way most amp sims are calibrated, but that difference can be made up in DAW, usually even right in the sim plug.

Of course, IMNSHO, it only really makes a difference if you're really looking for clean tones. By the time the input level hits 0dbfs even "clean" amp sims will break up, and it's pretty tough to hear what that little bit of opamp clipping (from the input to the ADC) might be adding. If you actually dial in any amount of overdrive, crunch, or distortion from the sim, the point is completely moot.
 
Xcaliber said:
I'm sorry if I misspoke or spoke out of turn. I was just sharing my experience and what I've read from others on the Internet. I don't have any experience with the 2i2, but I do have an Audiobox USB and I experienced the issues stated above.

I'm sorry, I don't understand a lot of what you said, could be my ignorance, but I think if you're going to be recording guitars a home a lot it's worth it to spend the extra money for the interface with the instrument level input. While it might be ok to turn down the volume knob I don't see why we (geetarists) should have to if there's a solution provided by the "better" interfaces.

Just my $.02 on the matter.
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Please! Don't apologise! I am pretty much just chopped liver around here anyway.

And I would like to point out that in many ways the 2i2 is an excellent interface (from all I have read of it) but, and you allude to this, it IS a budget interface aimed, one can assume at the first time bedroom jockey. Such a customer might well have a "Kays Cat" Strat with wooden magnets and she/he will likely be MORE pissed at not getting a good level (and certainly hearing hiss!) than the less likely scenario of overload.

AI inputs are almost all "one knob wonders" the mic/line /instrument amplifier has but one gain control and thus compromises have to happen. Contrast this with a "pro" mixer?
That will have a gain control spanning 60dB at least, a channel control giving infinite attenuation and usually +10dB of gain then a final output control of the overall mix, indeed! Many will have a multistep attenuator to cope with signals way out of the ordinary (hot cap' mic in a kick drum!).

One thing I shan't apologise for! Geetarist SHOULD bloody back off the pot if kit is clipping and sounding crap. That's what the fekkin' pot was put there for!

Dave.
 
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