Noob PC recording question

N

notsram

New member
After a 20(!) year break, I want to get back into recording my own music.

Fairly simple stuff, just vocals, sequenced synth (my trusty SY85), a few samples and maybe the odd bit of guitar. I know I need to buy a few bits to get going (midi to USB, audio out to USB cables etc.), and that I'll probably need to upgrade my software (a years old version of Cubase Audio), but what I can't seem to find out anywhere is whether I can actually play the sequenced music from my PC and record it at the same time on the same PC? I used to play the music from one PC and record to a second, but I only have one PC these days.

My PC is fairly powerful (Intel I7, 16 gigs RAM, Windows 64 bit), so I'd imagine it's theoretically capable, but I don't want to buy all the bits and pieces, get all inspired, then find I can't actually record any of the stuff I write.

Can anyone tell me if this is possible?

Thanks!
 
Yes, it is possible. You will want to get an audio interface with MIDI in/out, something like the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.
 
Your system is capable, main thing will be your interface and tweaking if required for audio. I think at this point, your DAW and your interface. Many have the old MIDI DIN In/Out, but also how many channels. For example, if you are playing your keyboard sounds, you would want two channels (for left and right), if you want to sing with it, then you will need 4 (since they don't come in three). If you are going to mic/DI more instruments, then you should look for more. Remember, each channel on your interface with get a track on your DAW for later mixing.

Reaper is a good start, they charge nothing to use it, after 30 days it gives you nag scree at start up, but remains full functional. $60 to make the screen go away and you get to full version upgrades (5-6, 6-7), so it is pretty reasonable. There are others that are capable and you may find better, but Reaper is a good starting point.

Hope that is enough to get you pointed in the right direction.
 
Thanks for that. Sounds encouraging!

What I actually want to do is fairly simple. Lay down some backing tracks on my synth (yeah, it's an old Midi one) as Midi sequences, then possibly overdub some guitar and finally record the vocals. I know I can do all these as it's what I used to do years ago (although I'll need to buy some cables), it's just the recording aspect when I play it all back that confuses me.

I'll definitely look into Reaper. I'm sure it'll be a big improvement over my 20 year old copy of Cubase! And come to think of it, I think I may have lost the Cubase dongle anyway. Haven't seen it in ages :p
 
Hi Notsram and welcome.

The perfect AI for your needs is the Native Instrument Komplete audio 6. Yes, a few quid more then the bareknuckle F'rites but WAY better value IMHO. You get...

Two excellent mic inputs which, as is usual these days, can be used as line inputs (TRS jacks) and high Z guitar inputs. Two more independent balanced line inputs so you could run 4 tracks but in anycase save re-plugging stuff. 4 balanced line outputs. MIDI I/o and S/PDIF I/O.

As is that was not enough! The KA6 has some of the best, most stable drivers for an AI in its price class and the lowest latency to boot (V important with MIDI and overdubbing) . There is more! Cubase, the AI comes with a limited but nonetheless very useful copy of the DAW (probably as powerful as your old one!). Much will have changed I am sure but the basic mechanics of Cubase will still be there and I bet you fall back into it very easily. There is a discount to an upgrade.

Lastly, HTF do you manage with just one computer? I would be lost if something went awry and I did not have at least a clunker to get on the web with!

BTW, yes, of course you can "do it all in one box" and most people do but when "we" were starting out with PC recording, my musician son (I mostly soldered and paid) did use two computers to transfer stuff over S/PDIF. We came you see from a tape dubbing background. Whatever floats your boat. Oh! and had MIDI patched between them as well.

Dave.
 
Ah, latency. I remember that. One of the things that made me quit all those years ago was that I could never 'quite' get Cubase and my Rebirth soft synth to talk to each other at quite the same speed. There was always a tiny bit of lag. I have my fingers crossed that is a thing of the past. I used to record to tape as well. I still have my ancient Fostex X28 (with the double record/playback speed to boost the audio quality). I could probably still use it as a mixer, but I'd guess the recording heads are pretty knackered by now, even if recording to cassette was still a viable option!

I did have two PCs up until a year or so ago, but we moved house and, in the pre-moving clutter clearout, that was one of the things to go.

So, back on topic. Everyone seems to be saying I need to buy an A/I. I was hoping I could just plug the audio cables from my synth into the PC audio ins, hit play in the sequencer, and record the sequences from the synth as an audio track on the sequencer. Guess I'll have to factor that into the budget. Don't have a huge amount of spare cash at the moment, so Ill have to see if I can justify splashing out on an A/I.
 
notsram said:
So, back on topic. Everyone seems to be saying I need to buy an A/I. I was hoping I could just plug the audio cables from my synth into the PC audio ins, hit play in the sequencer, and record the sequences from the synth as an audio track on the sequencer. Guess I'll have to factor that into the budget. Don't have a huge amount of spare cash at the moment, so Ill have to see if I can justify splashing out on an A/I.
Click to expand...

You can do that, but for starting at about $100 and usually under $400 for 16 channel (KA6 that Dave keeps peddling ;) is just $250), I do think it is worth the money and much improved recording quality to spend just a tad more and get the interface. It will just work better over all and better quality.
 
notsram, how's your collection of patches for the SY85. I have some I've collected from ages ago and could post them up somewhere if interested. The folder I've screenshot needs some cleanup and sorting.
I ought to get mine out of the closet and tinker with it :)
 

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"(KA6 that Dave keeps peddling is just $250), "

I should like it to be known that I have absolutely NO commercial connection with NI or any other company.

In fact NI are a rather "stiff" German company and not that easy to talk to! Fortunately the AI is SO reliable that I have never needed to!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
"(KA6 that Dave keeps peddling is just $250), "

I should like it to be known that I have absolutely NO commercial connection with NI or any other company.

In fact NI are a rather "stiff" German company and not that easy to talk to! Fortunately the AI is SO reliable that I have never needed to!

Dave.
Click to expand...

All in good fun. :)
 
arcaxis said:
notsram, how's your collection of patches for the SY85. I have some I've collected from ages ago and could post them up somewhere if interested. The folder I've screenshot needs some cleanup and sorting.
I ought to get mine out of the closet and tinker with it :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I'd definitley be interested! I have a load of old floppy disks with various patches/soundsets on, but haven't tried them yet. Of course, i don't have a floppy drive in my PC these days, but they're cheap enough to buy
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. So far, pretty much all I've done is download Reaper, got some midi to USB cables and try to get my Sy85 and Reaper to talk to each other so I can set up some simple backing tracks. No luck at all so far. Man, music software has got complicated in the days since I was using Cubase!


Three day weekend, so hopefully I'll have a bit of time to tinker and see if I can get them to communicate.
 
notsram said:
Thanks for all the advice guys. So far, pretty much all I've done is download Reaper, got some midi to USB cables and try to get my Sy85 and Reaper to talk to each other so I can set up some simple backing tracks. No luck at all so far. Man, music software has got complicated in the days since I was using Cubase!


Three day weekend, so hopefully I'll have a bit of time to tinker and see if I can get them to communicate.
Click to expand...

JUSFORT! You can download a 30 day trial of a "lite" Cubase. Might ring a few bells?

Been a long time since I dabbled but I do recall that in Cubase you must select and "activate" the MIDI devices and tick the "MIDI Thru" box. If the soundcard you are using does not have ASIO drivers try ASIO4ALL.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
JUSFORT! You can download a 30 day trial of a "lite" Cubase. Might ring a few bells?

Been a long time since I dabbled but I do recall that in Cubase you must select and "activate" the MIDI devices and tick the "MIDI Thru" box. If the soundcard you are using does not have ASIO drivers try ASIO4ALL.

Dave.
Click to expand...

A trial of Cubase? Interesting. I'll give that a try if I can get Windoze to recognise my SY85!

Another stupid question, but I don't want to use my PC soundcard, just the SY85 sounds. So I shouldn't need any drivers?

I've downloaded a program called Midi-Ox to test the connection between the PC and my synth, but it's not finding any midi inputs. THe USB to midi cable installs correctly, so as far as I know, that's fine. Been fiddling with the midi settings on my Sy85 for the past hour, but no luck. I'm starting to wonder if time has taken its toll and the midi ports are damaged...
 
If you haven't as of yet, you may need to install drivers for the MIDI cable (if it has them available). I just installed an old M-Audio UNO MIDI cable with drivers (MIDISPORT UNO). Shown below is MIDI-OX and Reaper (Win7 Pro 64bit). It didn't seem to want to install with Windows alone hunting for the drivers. Make sure the IN and OUT of the cable is connected to the appropriate jack on the synth :).
At some point you'll probably want a USB audio interface to get sounds from the SY85 into the computer and it may have MIDI ports depending on the model. I think this may have been mentioned earlier.
 

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I'm suspecting it's the cable. When I plug it in, Windows says the drivers are correctly installled, but I've read a few reviews of it on Amazon, and apaprently a few people have had problems getting it to work. So, as you say, could well be something to do with the drivers. It's only a cheap cable, a Proster, and there's no website that I can find, so probably no dedicated drivers available. I'll have a play around with some other drivers that I've found later on. If not, it could be a case of an M-Audio cable after the weekend :)

That'll teach me to go for the cheapest available! :p
 
You're absolutely right. I was contemplating a USB A/I, thanks to the advice of the posters above... but only had a brief glance at a couple, and didn't realise they came with built in Midi ports. How thick am I!

I'll now look at them a bit more closely. This does seem like the way to go and, as you point out, it'll save me having to buy a new midi-USB cable.

The Steinberg you linked looks pretty good, especially as it comes with a version of Cubase, which I've used in the past. I know it's a cut down version, but it'll probably be more than adequate for my needs for a while!

Thanks!
 
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