Need help fixing an Adobe Audition editing problem. I think it's noise reduction?

J

JohnTheChef

New member
I'm not a very concise person, but I'll try to keep this organized & short-sweet-and-to-the-point.

Summary:
I have a podcast. I do all my editing like this guy: https://youtu.be/1k_0mPb6efI?t=700 (The editing part of the video is 3-minutes long).
The only difference is that I used noise reduction or adaptive noise reduction to get rid of my equipment noise. I'm an amateur who doesn't know the difference, but they both got rid of the noise I needed, so I would just choose one (I'm sure that makes some of you cringe). I use the exact same equipment as that guy, but for some reason my audio files have noisier equipment sounds; it's unpleasant for listeners so I use noise reduction.
(Btw, I can't ask him for help, because he charges an outrageous amount of money for information.)


The problem:
A certain unpleasant sound is occurring with the final cut. For the longest time I was unaware of its existence because it can only be heard with headphones; more specifically earbuds. I did my editing with computer speakers. When listening through computer speakers or a phone speaker, it sounds excellent. With earbuds it sounds like I'm picking up some weird space signal and the audio quality sounds very 'airy'. Like the room is very spacious.

Process of elimination:
Of course I thought it was my equipment, so I set everything up as I normally do, then read Charlie Chaplin's speech from the movie The Dictator. Then I removed the mouse from my laptop and read it again. Then I removed my laptops power adapter...and read it again. Then I turned off the laptops WiFi and Bluetooth, then I turned off everything in the room that was unnecessary (and moved the laptop out), then I tried various mixer settings and equipment settings....etc. I continued this process of elimination and then compared each audio-file together.
I discovered that it was not the equipment, despite removing everything, the quality of each audio file sounds identical.

I believe I've narrowed the problem down to noise reduction.
If this is true, then I have a new problem...

New problem:
I either need to;
A. Find out how to eliminate equipment noise without creating additional noise and completely trashing the audio quality. (Requires knowledge I don't have)
B. Find out how to get my equipment to make less noise. (Costs money and requires an expert overlook my equipment and its settings)


What I want (my end-goal):
I'm looking for complete consistency in my podcast episodes. I want to be able to record with everything in such a manner so as to create nearly identical audio files. Then I want to take those identical audio files, insert them into Adobe Audition, and follow a list of instructions I made for how to edit the perfect podcast episode. Slightly **** sound, lows a bit higher, kinda loud (so listeners can control the volume on their own with more flexibility), and absolutely no equipment sound. I would like to be able to refer to a piece of paper and see step 2. for my editing process until I've memorized it.

Currently, I do not have this. Episode #1 sounds amazing. Episode #3 has volume problems. Episode #7 has this annoying space sound. Some episodes are louder than others, some are quieter.

Additional questions and concerns:
1. For episode #1 I applied the preset the guy mentions in the video, except twice. It sounded great - deeper and richer sound. But whenever I do it now, it never sounds as good as it used to. I'm not sure what I did then that I can't do now.

I think it now has something to do with me using noise reduction now, THEN the present, then noise reduction again.
In this instance, is it better to use noise reduction before or after using a preset? Is it bad to use it more than once? Does using noise reduction after a preset ruin the quality or void the preset?
(Btw I didn't use noise reduction in episode #1. That's the equipment noise I'm referring to, except imagine it as being a bit louder.)

2. If I want an episode to sound like #1, but without equipment noise. Instead of Episode #7, which instructions should I have for editing? Which presets?

3. How can I make my audio content sound like this, without the equipment noise being so loud? He doesn't appear to be using noise reduction.
He has the same equipment and allegedly told everyone his exact settings in that video, yet his equipment has more kick to it. More "Boom" when he talks.

4. Is it unwise to want noise reduction? Does it always ruin audio quality?


Thank you for taking the time to read this!
Do you have any advice for me?
 
In the episode 1 link you posted, the real issue seems to be noise. As in his from probably having the gain stage set up poorly. You told us loads, but missed the critical things. What microphone, what is it plugged into? How close is your mic. It's sounds to me, without knowing your setup, that you have an average mic, probably plugged straight into your computer. His 'sound' appears to be a quality mic, with a decent preamp, not a mega expensive one, plugged into his computer, perhaps even though an analogue mixer. I hate his advice. Those settings work by well for him, but that is on his mic, his gear and most critically, his voice! You are different. Let's get one thing sorted. The subtle differences in compression need quality monitoring. Many students I used to have could not hear what compressors were doing. Unless you want effect, their contribution is subtle. Setting a brick wall limiter prevents over level, there is no point using another limiter, it adds extra artefacts, that are usually negative ones. You use your effects and processing with speakers or headphones that are better than most listeners, it's the only way to know what you sound like in their ears. He has the classic American Radio sound, which isn't the same as a UK one. Ours would be less in your face. I have an EV mic that on voice sounds far more US than European. It's a kind of sound. What have you got? Preamp noise in computer built in audio systems is always dreadful. The dynamic range and quality is probably 5 dollars worth of quality.

The usual advice is to use a modest external device to get your audio into the computer, and modest active speakers plugged into the same device for replay. That video relies on you havering a low noise, high quality system. You won't hear the subtle stuff he is doing on cheap speakers and a low-if internal card.
 
rob aylestone said:
In the episode 1 link you posted, the real issue seems to be noise. As in his from probably having the gain stage set up poorly. You told us loads, but missed the critical things. What microphone, what is it plugged into? How close is your mic. It's sounds to me, without knowing your setup, that you have an average mic, probably plugged straight into your computer. His 'sound' appears to be a quality mic, with a decent preamp, not a mega expensive one, plugged into his computer, perhaps even though an analogue mixer. I hate his advice. Those settings work by well for him, but that is on his mic, his gear and most critically, his voice! You are different. Let's get one thing sorted. The subtle differences in compression need quality monitoring. Many students I used to have could not hear what compressors were doing. Unless you want effect, their contribution is subtle. Setting a brick wall limiter prevents over level, there is no point using another limiter, it adds extra artefacts, that are usually negative ones. You use your effects and processing with speakers or headphones that are better than most listeners, it's the only way to know what you sound like in their ears. He has the classic American Radio sound, which isn't the same as a UK one. Ours would be less in your face. I have an EV mic that on voice sounds far more US than European. It's a kind of sound. What have you got? Preamp noise in computer built in audio systems is always dreadful. The dynamic range and quality is probably 5 dollars worth of quality.

The usual advice is to use a modest external device to get your audio into the computer, and modest active speakers plugged into the same device for replay. That video relies on you havering a low noise, high quality system. You won't hear the subtle stuff he is doing on cheap speakers and a low-if internal card.
Click to expand...


I'm using a Heil-PR40 Microphones plugged into a Behringer compressor/limiter/gate, that goes into a Macky Mixer, that goes into a Roland portable recorder.
The laptop is not used for recording; nor is it affecting sound quality in any way. The laptop is only plugged in for Skype calls, which rarely happen. In those instances the audio from the guest goes into the mixer and the sound from the mixer goes into the laptop, minus the sound leaving the laptop.

Should I be using a brick-wall limiter? If so, what level should one be set at? Do commercial CD's use them?
If I don't have an ear for subtle compression, can it be learned?
I kind of want a classic American radio sound but I don't quite want it to be compressed within an inch of it's life like most American radio stations do by compressing it through several devices.
 
If it is this..Behringer MDX2600 Composer Pro XL

Compressor/gate* then, AFAICT it is NOT designed for microphone input. It has a -10dBV option so I suppose it will give SOME gain but not optimized for low noise microphone amplification. In any case compressors always pull up noise.

That microphone is not quite 6dB more sensitive than the ubiquitous SM 57/58s so a decent mic pre or mixer is still required.

As for getting an "American" voice sound? Years of practice? I would bet a good deal of it is technique and only "arse saving" limiters used in the mic feed? Any compression, if used, would be way down the signal processing line?

*Why the secrecy? Like drawing effing teeth!(I mean, we already KNOW it's a Behringer!)

Dave.
 
The "American radio DJ" style sounds to me like an RE20 into multiband compression. Of course you have to have the right technique (delivery and mic) and a voice with resonance down low for it to work. It's not just processing.
 
ecc83 said:
If it is this..Behringer MDX2600 Composer Pro XL

Compressor/gate* then, AFAICT it is NOT designed for microphone input. It has a -10dBV option so I suppose it will give SOME gain but not optimized for low noise microphone amplification. In any case compressors always pull up noise.

That microphone is not quite 6dB more sensitive than the ubiquitous SM 57/58s so a decent mic pre or mixer is still required.

As for getting an "American" voice sound? Years of practice? I would bet a good deal of it is technique and only "arse saving" limiters used in the mic feed? Any compression, if used, would be way down the signal processing line?

*Why the secrecy? Like drawing effing teeth!(I mean, we already KNOW it's a Behringer!)

Dave.
Click to expand...


Close. I'm using the Behringer MDX-4600 Compressor/Limiter/Gate.

There's no secret in the equipment I'm using, I stated that I used the same exact equipment as the podcast answer man (the guy in the original video). A 2 second search shows you everything involved:
Podcast Equipment


Don't I want to be able to hear the changes it's making to the audio file? How do I properly use the compressor/limiter/gateway then? Microphones go into the mixer, output goes into the Behringer and then back into the mixer?


I would bet a good deal of it is technique and only "arse saving" limiters used in the mic feed? Any compression, if used, would be way down the signal processing line?
Click to expand...

P.S. I don't understand anything you were saying here. Could you please reword it?
 
I can do the radio voice, and I have the right microphone for the job.
I believe we're picturing a different radio sound. I want only a small fraction of the sound you're picturing. I imagine that you're picturing a guy speaking into a low frequency microphone with a radio voice telling you that you have a chance to win a 2009 PT Cruiser with an audio clip that was compressed within an inch of it's life.
I don't want that. I just don't want it to sound completely natural; microphone to recorder and that's it.
I want it to have a pleasant feel to it. I have a good voice and the podcast episodes are 3 hours long. I want it to be easy to listen to.

I need to find an editing process that's right for me. Something I don't know how to go about doing. It's only replicate this person, or replicate that person when you're a beginner who knows little about the process they had to go through to determine their own unique editing process without copying another person.
 
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JohnTheChef said:
Don't I want to be able to hear the changes it's making to the audio file? How do I properly use the compressor/limiter/gateway then? Microphones go into the mixer, output goes into the Behringer and then back into the mixer?
Click to expand...

Yes. Use the channel insert to connect the compressor.
 
"
I would bet a good deal of it is technique and only "arse saving" limiters used in the mic feed? Any compression, if used, would be way down the signal processing line?
P.S. I don't understand anything you were saying here. Could you please reword it? "

Yes, as others have said, The Voice is natural (a gift? We are not all Tito Gobbis after all!) or/and the result of practise. "A" saving limiting means a device to ensure the level of a cough for example, does not run the system into overload. I then suspect the voice signal is taken from the mixer or preamp "dry" and only further down the broadcast chain "sweetened" with various treatments.

Often done badly IMHO. I rarely listen to our Classic FM because even the gals seem to have hairy chests. BBC R3 and R4 are MUCH more pleasant to listen to plus R3 lets the room acoustics hang on a few seconds after a Bach recital. Classic FM CAN'T WAIT to slam in an ad!

Dave.
 
First thing to do is stop using the compressor, connect the mic to the mixer, and with something decent, listen to the output. Get used to the way the channel fader and the input gain interact. You can get the same sensible output level on the meters with channel gain low and channel fader high, AND gain high and channel fader low - but they sound different. One may be thinner, noisier and kind of yucky, and the other might be the opposite. In all the years I have been recording I have NEVER used a brick wall limiter when recording. I have never used a compressor, while recording either. I know some people do, but I use compression to make the end result fit the end user, I use a brick wall limiter if there is a chance the recording can go out of control - perhaps when I have to guess the maximum level on a recorder, and don't want to go over. You need to get control and learn your equipment really well before you slap treatment on it. Hell, for years I didn't even own a compressor - the only compression I experienced was squeezing it onto tape!

You have a perfectly serviceable mic, and a roland recorder. The Mackie won't have dreadful pre-amps. Spend some time getting to know your equipment. Then the compressor can be connected via the insert jack if you wish, and you can experiment with it to HEAR what it adds. I suspect you may not like it that much, unless you want a really squashed sound. Dave summed it up quite well with the Radio 3 v Classic FM comment. Two organisations, big budgets, and quality recordings - then through choice they process the music, differently. Their equipment is many times the cost of the behringer we are discussing here.

Critical areas to learn are gain staging - the journey the signal takes from start to finish to maximise signal to noise and reduce distortion, and then probably the most important - mic technique.

One point - if your Mackie has inserts on ¼" jacks, this is the preferred way to interface a compressor - it breaks the path between input and output and allows line level out to the compressor, and then a line level return. You can feed the stereo output, into the compressor and then stick that into the Roland recorder. Inserts are just a bit more convenient to use.
 
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