Making a piano midi piece sound good

Anything under the solid line is a signature. It's not directed at you. ;)

I'm just saying if the quantised performance is the thing that's lacking or causing you to be unhappy, then all the great VST instruments in the world aren't going to satisfy.
You'll just have a range of different sounding copies of a performance you aren't happy with.

If that's not the case then fair enough, but we left our conversation with you re-recording and sending non-quantised midi.

Someone may have the patience to go through your midi a make the timing more realistic but, certainly in the longer term, not quantising at all would be a better approach.

It's much easier to tweak here and there on a midi performance which has a few flaws than it is to make a grid-quantised performance sound natural.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Anything under the solid line is a signature. It's not directed at you. ;)

I'm just saying if the quantised performance is the thing that's lacking or causing you to be unhappy, then all the great VST instruments in the world aren't going to satisfy.
You'll just have a range of different sounding copies of a performance you aren't happy with.

If that's not the case then fair enough, but we left our conversation with you re-recording and sending non-quantised midi.

Someone may have the patience to go through your midi a make the timing more realistic but, certainly in the longer term, not quantising at all would be a better approach.

It's much easier to tweak here and there on a midi performance which has a few flaws than it is to make a grid-quantised performance sound natural.
Click to expand...

I'll be making another recording for sure and I'll be sharing it here but like I've said before, I'm more about the sound of the instrument rather than the actual recording. All I've received so far is either too much echo/reverb or just robotic sound of the piano. The sound of the piano needs to be clear and crisp, not too much echo, no background noise etc. Then, we can take it to another level by improving on the performance. I hope it makes sense however, I'm not an expert and I may be just talking rubbish ;)
 
PJ_ said:
I'll be making another recording for sure and I'll be sharing it here but like I've said before, I'm more about the sound of the instrument rather than the actual recording. All I've received so far is either too much echo/reverb or just robotic sound of the piano. The sound of the piano needs to be clear and crisp, not too much echo, no background noise etc. Then, we can take it to another level by improving on the performance. I hope it makes sense however, I'm not an expert and I may be just talking rubbish ;)
Click to expand...

Not talking rubbish, for sure, but it's important to make your requirements clear otherwise people are guessing.
I don't think you had mentioned anything about echo, noise, reverb until now. Apologies if I'm wrong there.

Regardless, "robotic" raises a flag. Any robotic quality is most like going to come from the velocities and note timing, the latter of which you have quantised.
Personally I'd start by getting a performance you're happy with then worry about the instrument sound afterwards, as a bad performance can really skew our perception.
 
Based on what has been said herein....You are not happy with the neither the performance or the sound...If you are not happy with the performance, you are just trying to "polish a turd" changing the "sound" and as we all know...You can't polish a turd....

Someone here has a tag line that goes something to the effect "If it's not happening in the room, it's not going to happen on the record.....something like that...

Don't waste your time recording a piano sound you don't like with a keyboard that isn't touch sensitive....To get the real sound and effect of a real piano you don't need a real piano but you do need a good sounding piano sample or vst and a velocity sensitive midi type keyboard to perform the piece on... and a proficient keyboard player to perform it...

I'd encourage you to toss what you have and start over approaching it with aforementioned suggestions....Good Luck!
 
PJ_ said:
All I've received so far is either too much echo/reverb or just robotic sound of the piano. The sound of the piano needs to be clear and crisp, not too much echo, no background noise etc. Then, we can take it to another level by improving on the performance. I hope it makes sense however, I'm not an expert and I may be just talking rubbish ;)
Click to expand...

Do you like this sound better? No reverb just a little eq'ing and compression after running a with a noise filter.

View attachment 100649
 
Mack Caster said:
Do you like this sound better? No reverb just a little eq'ing and compression after running a with a noise filter.

View attachment 100649
Click to expand...

Thanks Mack but I don't think this is the sound I'm looking for. I'm looking for something like this (or as close as possible):
YouTube

Now you can compare the above piano sound with mp3 Mack has uploaded and you should have an idea or what sort of sound I'm looking for. I'm not looking for any extraordinary piano sound but something simple but decent. I didn't know that this is so difficult to achieve :(
 
OK, so how would you like to proceed? Do you want someone to record your original track? If so, than you need to provide some direction. In other words, you know how you want it to sound in your head and that is where you have the advantage. You need to be able to make your ideas or thoughts as clear as possible. Do you want this track to be soulful, mellow, laid back, excited, classical or tear jerking?

I will be going down to my local Guitar Center this weekend. If you just want a remake of your original file, than I will try and line up someone to play your track as I record it into my Tascam or Zoom using a new set of matched stereo mics I just picked up. If you have a particular set of keys you prefer, than I will need that info as well. Steinway, upright etc.

I can't promise you anything but I also don't mind trying to help you out as well. A lot of musicians hang out there on the weekends and you never know who may be showing up. So, the more information you can provide me, the better results you will get. Just so you know, you have now donned the hat of a Music Producer.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mack Caster again.

Beyond cool brother!
 
gecko zzed said:
It means that if someone gives you Rep, they can't give you more Rep until they have given Rep to someone else.
Click to expand...

^ ~@!!&%$!!! ^ The bloody world is obsessed with points and fekkin' LEAGUE tables and stuff.
Like bleeding kids at their first school getting stars!

Ok, Miserable Old Fekker going for his breaky.

Dave.
 
gecko zzed said:
It means that if someone gives you Rep, they can't give you more Rep until they have given Rep to someone else.
Click to expand...

Thanks, someone left that as a reply to one of my post and I could not figure it out. I thought maybe you had to have so many post or something. I think to poster was just letting me know they tried.

ecc83 said:
^ ~@!!&%$!!! ^ The bloody world is obsessed with points and fekkin' LEAGUE tables and stuff. Like bleeding kids at their first school getting stars! Ok, Miserable Old Fekker going for his breaky. Dave.
Click to expand...

I see you have been thanked 353 times, mine will make 354 for ya. I also see you only felt the need to thank someone else, once. Maybe you did that one by mistake. As far as the "bloody world is obsessed with points and fekkin' LEAGUE tables and stuff", that is your opinion and you are certainty entitled to it, just as I am with my own. My opinion, is that people just do not say thank you near enough. Hope you had a good break.
 
Last edited:
Mack Caster said:
Thanks, someone left that as a reply to one of my post and I could not figure it out. I thought maybe you had to have so many post or something. I think to poster was just letting me know they tried.



I see you have been thanked 353 times, mine will make 354 for ya. I also see you only felt the need to thank someone else, once. Maybe you did that one by mistake. As far as the "bloody world is obsessed with points and fekkin' LEAGUE tables and stuff", that is your opinion and you are certainty entitled to it, just as I am with my own. My opinion, is that people just do not say thank you near enough. Hope you had a good break.
Click to expand...

Did not know about the 'thank you' system until VERY recently and still could not give a stuff that it is recorded. That is why I do not 'officially' thank people, smacks a bit to me of the insincere and grating "Have a nice day!"

I think I have been here long enough for peeps to know me and I don't need it up in lights.
However! Here I go getting all serious when my initial remark was supposed to be T in C and jokey.

In 'real life' this IS serious. We have had a series of governments that ARE obsessed with points, targets and league tables for education and health services among others. The problem is, people make far to much of them. e.g. moving to get little Johnny in 'better' school, even giving a grandparent's address instead of their own. Being human, those in the 'industries' are tempted, if not to cheat but to 'massage' the figures.

Of course, Ministers and the Gen Public have not the slightest idea how statistics work!

But chap, FFS! I was just being a cynical old fart!

Dave (Oh! And thanks a million BTW.)
 
ecc83 said:
I think I have been here long enough for peeps to know me and I don't need it up in lights.
However! Here I go getting all serious when my initial remark was supposed to be T in C and jokey.
Click to expand...

This is the second time you have done this with me, so I guess I will just start playing back with ya. As my 14 year old granddaughter is so fond of saying, "what evvvssss bloke".

Dave (Oh! And thanks a million BTW.)
Click to expand...

Well, you are not welcome BTW! Now I am going to go take my "Thanks" back so you don't have to put on errs. Peace Out. ;-)
 
" Now I am going to go take my "Thanks" back so you don't have to put on errs. Peace Out. ;-) "

Can Ee' DO that Mods? And JUST in case anyone is in any doubt? THAT was a joke as well.

Do you mean 'Airs' as in 'Airs and Graces'? Anyhoos, I'll stop digging now, seems my dry, Limey humour does not go down so well!

Peace of course. I am only interested in the technicals and trying to help folks.

Dave.
 
Just in chase you don't know, when you thank someone, if you look next to the post you thanked them on, it will say something like "Remove your thanks". As far as "Airs and Grace", no, it is totally different. Just a little bit of West Virginia Hillbilly Humor. It has two meanings depending on the situation. One is good and the other is bad. I gave you the good one. Half the time I am looking up your phrases, just to follow along.

I only have about 5 more hrs and I will be off my 50hr work block. Like you, I enjoy helping as well. I am dong a video dispelling some of the myths floating on the WWW, concerning room treatment so others are aware of just what they can expect to get. The goal is for them to be able to make an educated decision without interjecting my own opinion. CYOTF. <---C U On The Forum. ;-)
 
I've been looking at the midi file and you've got a combination of problems that prevent it being realistic. The obvious thing is simply quantisation, and the pedal is robotic too, so all the human elements are missing. The range of velocity events is also quite squashed, so the quieter notes are in the middle, and the louder ones are also in the middle. On top of this, pianos have strange note on messages. Almost universally the further out your hands go, the later they appear, so move further away from the grid lines. In yours the quantising has aligned the start of each note, but of course the lengths remain at their played length with messes up the end timings. In some places the emphasis is on the wrong not in a repeated couplet, which makes it stand out. I tried the pianoteq piano as I rather like that. It sounds ok, but the robotic feel is a mistake. If you, or the person playing can actually play the piano, then forget quantising completely, it's pointless for a repetitive piece like this. I wonder if the keyboard you played it on is responsible for the lack of dynamics? Piano in this style needs to be freely played. Then with a decent piano sound, it's fine.Until you get this right, forget about reverbs and treatment - the midi file itself is just too rigid. Happens all the time. Quantisation seems to be slapped on nowadays like they slap on pitch fixing without any thought. Bars and beats are for guidance only.
 
Mack Caster said:
I think to poster was just letting me know they tried.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

If you try to give rep to someone, and they were also the last one you gave rep to, the system pops out a message saying "you must spread some rep around before giving it to X again" (or words to that effect, I can't remember the exact words). It's not uncommon for the person giving rep to quote that in a post to let them know they tried.

It ought to be a useful system, because you would expect reputation points to be given to people who provide sound and useful advice, and therefore the more points a person has, the more helpful and useful they've been. However it has been abused in two directions: a group of people can get together and award each other rep in rotation simply to get a high rep score, or you can award negative rep vindictively and maliciously.
 
gecko zzed said:
a group of people can get together and award each other rep in rotation simply to get a high rep score, or you can award negative rep vindictively and maliciously.
Click to expand...

Everything made perfect sense. For me, it is easy to see who is active and giving solid advice. I just read the advice they give and see if it lines up. The vindictive thing I know all to well. Thanks for the explanation, like I said, it all made sense!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top