Low frequencies "boomin" on vocal

T

timoskouros

New member
Hello everyone.

Im recording vocals with akg c214, roll-off filter at off and db at -0.
Before buying AKG I had Golden Age FC3 MkII.

On both microphones I noticed that at around 130-142 hz , 250-288 hz, there are those frequencies that make the vocal a bit muddy.This is the first question, if this thing happens to you too.

Second question : Whats the best way to remove those but without making the vocal too harsh ? I understand that I need those frequencies cause its making the vocal more natural, but I hear them boomin and I feel like thats against my will the vocal to be "clear".I tried EQing those frequencies and it sounds good but I feel that I destroy the natural sound of the vox but without making it too harsh.In the other hand, I tried using multiband comp but I feel like its not the best way to solve that "problem".

Notes : The microphone is not in a vocal booth and my room is untreated.I've also used SE Electronics RF-X but the "problem" persists.
My microphone is going through presonus tube-pre v2 and then to my soundcard which is focusrite saffire pro 26.

Thank you for your time.
 
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How close do you sing to the mic?
If you move in, it will boom, if you move back it's less.
Work the mic when you sing.

After the fact...work some EQ and scoop a little in the range that is booming to you.
 
The distance of pop filter from the mic is a punch-size and the mouth of the singer is close at the pop filter.
I placed the singer half step away from the mic but the boomin is still there.I can't place the singer much away from the mic cause the microphone will record the "room" since there's no vocal booth as I mentioned on the first post.
Yes I always do some EQ, basically I just cut everything below 90hz and then boost with a notch filter those low boomin frequencies in order to find them and then cut them, but I feel that I destroy the naturality from the voice.

I just want to see if this is natural - if this happens to other people too.
 
What is natural sound...and what you sometimes need to do to make a recording, a mix, sound natural...may not always be the same thing.

You have to balance things out in the mix...and sometimes you may need to do more drastic things to individual track(s) in order to do that...but the point is the total mix, not so much the original/individual tracks.

Also...not all mics will react the same way...so sometimes you have to really tailor the mic to the singer.
Mic boom, or "proximity effect" is nothing new or uncommon with vocals...everyone deals with it at some point, so yo just have to find the best way to do that in your situation, with your gear.

AFA having the singer step back...it doesn't have to be all the time. The singer needs to learn how to work the mic...to know when certain words cause lots of boom, just like knowing to pull back a bit on very loud sections, so as not to overload the mic...etc.
AFA the room...that's another issue. In a pinch...hnag some thick blankets a couple of feet away from, and around the back/sides of the singer...and have the singer sing to the long side of the room...so the the facing wall is far away.
IOW...if it's a rectangular room...set up more at one end, face the long end...put the blankets behind and to the sides of the singer...etc. That should take out some of the room...but don't worry if it's not 100% dead.
 
What the heck a 'punch-size?
Anywho, to add to what Miroslav said, a few general ideas.
The tone boost due to proximity effect would tend to be a fairly even low increase extending up into the 200-300 Hz range. In which case a single appropriate shelf or bell dip could address it.
Room resonances on the other hand can be much narrower- and in a few frequencies in that area.

Note too that these can ring' and be as much -duration problems- as level boosts. And the other gotcha' is they're excited more by when specific notes are hit. This is where it can be problematic to chase them with eq. 'Dip them as a solution for when they're 'ringing -which can be a significant amount- then leaves thinning when they are not.
And I doubt the 'vocal shield tackles this- The cause being 'your voice in the room. (If you've seem small room low freq plots in REW for example- there can be 20 or more dB peaks.

Knowing this ...stuff :>) leaves us in better position to sort out what to do.
You're seeing similar problems with two mics.. Sounds like a clue.
Try taking one out side, or if you have a big open room to try, same distance setup.. See if they smooth out.
 
Compare with references, you might be surprised how little low end there is on vocals in a mix - even voices that initially seem full and deep. When you EQ the vocal, do it within the mix to avoid solo syndrome.
 
One other thing - how are you monitoring? Can you visually see these 'booming frequencies' in a spectrum analysis?
 
mjbphotos said:
One other thing - how are you monitoring? Can you visually see these 'booming frequencies' in a spectrum analysis?
Click to expand...

Yeah ofc I can visually see those frequencies, that's how I lower them with EQ.

But don't miss the point of my first post, I asked if your vox recordings have similar frequencies like I do.Cause if yes, that means that is normal and there's not much things to worry about, if yes, I need to find ( I already know I believe as I mentioned on the first post at the notes ) and fix the problems to avoid those low frequencies.
 
timoskouros said:
...But don't miss the point of my first post, I asked if your vox recordings have similar frequencies like I do. Cause if yes, that means that is normal and there's not much things to worry about, if yes, I need to find ( I already know I believe as I mentioned on the first post at the notes ) and fix the problems to avoid those low frequencies.
Click to expand...
Of course they can have freq issue that need to be 'trimmed. And (but) again, for various reasons.
But not chronically', nor for different voices, or in different mix contexts, and certainly not the same freqs.
 
iqi616 said:
Compare with references, you might be surprised how little low end there is on vocals in a mix - even voices that initially seem full and deep. When you EQ the vocal, do it within the mix to avoid solo syndrome.
Click to expand...

I agree. Simply cut low. Take as a reference 250, but off course this can change with each singer.
Some EQ's have a build in 'cut low' function.

Good luck!
 
timoskouros said:
Hello everyone.

Notes : The microphone is not in a vocal booth and my room is untreated.I've also used SE Electronics RF-X but the "problem" persists.
Click to expand...

I think this is at least a big part of the problem, you will be amazed how much the room causes this problem even when singing close to the mic. Reflections arrive after the original sound and muddy up the vocals heaps. This especially happens in the low mids 250 to 400hz. Even when you shelve the lows and mids the artefacts are still there in the relative frequencies. The guys are right when they say you can shelve the low end, vocals is usually shelved below 120hz unless there is a baritone opera singer LOL, but if the low mids are messy there will be problems.

Put up some sound deadener behind the singer, even a thick blanket will be better than nothing. This will at least kill the reflection behind the singer bouncing back into the mic.

Alan.
 
mixsit said:
Of course they can have freq issue that need to be 'trimmed. And (but) again, for various reasons.
But not chronically', nor for different voices, or in different mix contexts, and certainly not the same freqs.
Click to expand...

So you consider this thing as an issue ?
 
timoskouros said:
So you consider this thing as an issue ?
Click to expand...

Well, the problem -in answering specifics- as being said/asked before above, is we don't know the nature -severity- nor cause of what you are hearing. For example, I still don't really know if you're seeing just normal mixing eq tweaks, or maybe having to fix nasties polluting your tracks happening from room resonances. Two hugely diff situations. Which is why I tried to draw you in with information to help you sort through the differences. Then-- you (we) have; better questions, better answers.
 
do you have hardwood floors in your home studio? They can act as loudspeakers for outside noise and reflect sounds in the studio into the mics. One recommendation was to use carpeting
 
bluesfordan said:
do you have hardwood floors in your home studio? They can act as loudspeakers for outside noise and reflect sounds in the studio into the mics. One recommendation was to use carpeting
Click to expand...

Not throwing you under the bus but:

Never heard anyone ever say that about hardwood floors being loudspeakers for outside noise... Never.

Most 'well treated' recording rooms have hardwood floors. Especially good for drum recording to have a solid/reflective floor.

Carpeting is likely the last thing anyone should recommend for room treatment. Though I do have it in my control room for comfort. It would have absolutely no positive effect on the OP's situation of 'boomy' vocals. At the most it might attenuate some really high frequency reflections depending on the type of carpet. Nothing that would have anything to do with helping timo and his issue.

Sorry.
 
bluesfordan said:
do you have hardwood floors in your home studio? They can act as loudspeakers for outside noise and reflect sounds in the studio into the mics. One recommendation was to use carpeting
Click to expand...

My studio has all wooden floors, no problems there? Most top studios in the world have wooden or hard floors, I have never been in a pro studio with carpet.

Alan.
 
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