a little help please

Well, my take on vocals...

A decent mic is important but you don't need to go silly with an ultra expensive "boutique" audiophile one.

Also important is an audio interface but your Steinberg should suffice.

Now, the two other VERY important things: your voice/performance and the acoustics of your room. There's a whole sub forum here about acoustic treatment of rooms and, frankly that can make a bigger difference than the mic choice. However, to be radical, my view is that if you can't make a room sound GOOD, then just use lots of padding (movers blankets and the like) to make the room dead (i.e. not echoey) and add reverb etc. in mixing.

Effects? None at the time of tracking. However, during the mix pretty well every vocal--even the best singers in the best studios--have effects added. Typically this would be some tweaking of EQ, some compression to even out the dynamic range and usually a bit of reverb to add some space. Exactly what and how much of everything will depend on your recording.
 
And drums Nathan? People largely program their own, a full drum kit is expensive, noisy and hard to mic up with a simple 2 channel AI.

There might be a drum sequencer in Sequel but if not there is free software about (never looked in Reaper?). Google for BFD Eco, that gives you individual instruments and drum patterns (they call them "grooves") I think there is a demo you can try.

People will suggest EzeDrummer...I had the demo and it crawled all over my PC and was a sod to get rid of. Whatever software you try, set a Restore point before installing it, that way you can jump back to a clean state.

Tis a pity that C11 does not have MIDI ports. More a shame since Steinberg practically INVENTED the MIDI sequencer!

Dave.
 
there is no way I could have a drum kit. I wish I could though, but I have tried rythem rascal, and its a free download.I was just curious what other people are using. whats reaper ? I have heard about it.

im probably going to go read bout audacity cause its late and im bored.

cheers
 
Reaper is some Audio production software that is vastly more flexible and capable than Audacity in what it can do. It's got an unlimited free trial and, when you decide to purchase, it's only $60 so a lot less than other comparable "brand names".

Check it out HERE.

As it sounds like you're starting to get a bit serious about this, I'd strongly suggest you forget Audacity and give Reaper a try. You'll need to spend some time learning how to use it but it'll last you forever.
 
I'm a learner when it comes to singing and recording vocals. My philosophy is to use the equipment I have until I have gotten good enough that the problems are down to my gear and not my skills--hasn't happened yet, on vocals anyway. So I would say use the mic you have unless it's truly holding you back.

What I'm finding is that the critical thing is to get a clean recording with consistent levels. IF your levels are all over the place, overdubbimg and mixing become a chore. Experiment and find a system that works and then do the same thing every time, well until you find a better system. That means the same settings on your preamp and compresspr if you use one, mic set up in the same spot, you head the same distance from the mic, etc. That takes the guesswork out and gives more consistent results.

In terms of mixing vocals, the surprise for me has been how much compression it takes to get a vocal track to the point where it sits in the mix and every word is intelligible. I have been adding light compression going in, then at least two layers of compression in the DAW, in addition to whatever I put on the master bus. I had no idea. Previously I had reorded guitars and bass and never needed much compression at all. Electric guitar is the easiest thing in the world to record (acoustic guitar not so much). Vocals are much more tricky.
 
"In terms of mixing vocals, the surprise for me has been how much compression it takes to get a vocal track to the point where it sits in the mix and every word is intelligible."

Din't think people bothered to make the words intelligible these days? Not like the excellent diction of people like Frank, Tony Bennet and Ella!

As for choppy vocal levels? MIC TECHNIQUE! Microphones are thick, you have to learn how to use one and think I will leave it to others to comment on "easy" electric guitar capture!

Dave.
 
thanks but I checked out reaper and its a 60 day trial. then it says its 250 dollars if you ever want to publish your music or something. I just pluged my peavey vypyr into audacity and it sounds pretty decent to me. just for messing around,i think it will do for now. still sturgling with a good vocials though. maybe I need a new mike.
 
You've mis-read the Reaper Terms and Conditions.

Yes, the official trial is 60 days but they don't cancel it after that time. If you like and use it, you should pay but they don't cancel you if you don't.

Similarly, the $60 one-off payment is for any non-commercial use...and includes selling your music up to $20,000 per year. If you earn $20,000 a year from your music, then you can afford to pay the $250 commercial rate!

It's a good deal. I know Audacity is free but you'll very soon want to start using facilities and techniques that Audacity just can't do--and any time spent learning it will be wasted. Note that I'm NOT talking about sound quality--your mic, room, interface and performance control that. I'm talking plug ins and mix techniques that Audacity can't help you with.
 
Nathan,

I haven't listened to your recording so my comments don't relate to that. There have been some excellent comments posted by others but based on those comments I'll give my two cents worth anyway.

Performance, performance, performance!!! It's no good worrying about your vocal ability if you can't back it up with a competent level of skill on your instrument and the opposite applies. Decide whether you want to be a singer, a guitarist or both!!!

The acoustic environment where you record CAN NOT be under-estimated........it can make or break a recording. The simplest solution is to create a "booth" (use multiple layers of blankets, etc.) around the sound source to reduce the influence of the room. Reverb, etc., can be added during the mix down process.......it's easier to add it later than to attempt to remove it.

Mics.........two things here. Choice of mic and placement in relation to the sound source. A Shure SM58 is not a bad mic for live work (vocals) or on instruments when recording, in general, they're regarded as an industry standard and should be a keeper, however, I would suggest that for vocals, you will ultimately be better served by a large diaphragm condenser mic although a condenser will require phantom power. There are any number of "budget" priced mics available......at the cheaper end my choice is still a Studio Project C1. One warning here.......condenser mics are way more sensitive than dynamics (eg: an SM58) and most of the budget units tend to accentuate some higher frequencies.

Be prepared to experiment, learning the basic art of recording takes time and "practice", once you have recorded decent "dry" tracks, then comes the learning of mixing and applying appropriate effects, etc.

It's a long slippery slope so follow the old saying......"get it right at the source".

:cool:
 
so, I switched to reaper ,and so far I'm lout loving it. there was a bit of a learning curve but I think I am getting the jist of it . I even figured out how to add drum tracks.

my next question is about performance.

when you are playing chords over a drum beat or even without drums, how do you count or do you bother. 1 e and a 2 e and a etc. would you strum on each beat ? or does it even matter
 
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If you're playing a song you wrote, you can play anything you like on the guitar. There's a million ways to strum, just try and stay in time with the drums, whether it's one strum, two or whatever. Being in time is the first step. Playing style is whatever you feel fits the song. Try a few different ways then listen to each and see what you think is your favorite. If you like it, chances are others will too.

Your vocals are fine, your voice is your voice and be proud of it. Getting better - totally subjective - just takes time.

Getting a nice clean recording will help you hear the good and the bad, the good will inspire you, the bad will inspire you to try harder.

Keep posting tracks and let us know what your connections/settings are so if we have suggestions for improved sound we know what the chain is and maybe how to improve it.
 
nathan236 said:
when you are playing chords over a drum beat or even without drums, how do you count or do you bother. 1 e and a 2 e and a etc. would you strum on each beat ? or does it even matter
Click to expand...

It matters to the extent that you want the strums to tell a musical story. If you want to leave space, strum only on a chord change. If you want to be busy, strum every beat
 
thanks for all the tips. but I have run into a new problem. I am using reaper. I have my amp pluged in direct to my computer via usb port.
I laid down a simple beat. and I am trying to keep time to it. but when a strum a chord there is a delay from what I am playing to what I am hearing for the guitar part. this makes playing in time really difficult. any solutions or ideas ?

thanks
 
nathan236 said:
thanks for all the tips. but I have run into a new problem. I am using reaper. I have my amp pluged in direct to my computer via usb port.
I laid down a simple beat. and I am trying to keep time to it. but when a strum a chord there is a delay from what I am playing to what I am hearing for the guitar part. this makes playing in time really difficult. any solutions or ideas ?

thanks
Click to expand...

That is latency, something that is often a problem until you get a recording system properly set up.

You are, iirc using a C11 interface? First step, download the latest (ASIO?) driver from Steinberg.
Next look to the computer and make sure certain audio "busting" features are turned off.

Main among these are: Windows Sounds, set to No Sounds. Then defeat any wireless/Bluetooth hard and software in the machine. It might also be best to disable the internal soundcard in Device Manager.
Ant-Virus software can also be a problem. I only run Ms SE and have never had a problem.

These measures will not REDUCE latency by themselves but they should allow you to reduce "buffer" sizes without breakup.

Dave.
 
this latency sucks. I am not using the Steinberg interface. I have my peavey vypyr amp connected directly to the laptop. then I go to options/prefrences/device then direct sound or wave out because those are the only two that will detect it. . output device vypyr usb interface. then there is some stuff on the bottom about buffers 8 . and 1024 samples. and then it says latency 185 ms. but what ever I do nothing seems to change
 
Alas, you're going to get a latency problem as long as you record this way. Audio taking a round trip via the computer will always be delayed no matter how fast your computer is or how many other programmes you close down.

This is where the CI1 can come in. It has a feature called "Direct Monitoring" which is that knob labelled "Mix" with "Input" at one end and "DAW" at the other. This lets you record while listening to your sounds before they even get to the computer. However, it goes farther and, if you use the Steinberg ASIO drivers, these should talk to your DAW and let you over dub pre-existing tracks with the drivers pulling the new and old stuff into sync--the Mix knob lets you control the balance between existing tracks ("DAW") and your Input.

I should say that I'm not familiar with the VYPYR so maybe it offers a similar function--if so, you could try using that but I suspect it's not set up to work that way. If not, I'd take an audio out from your amp (rather than USB), into your CI1, then work as per what I said above.
 
nathan236 said:
this latency sucks. I am not using the Steinberg interface. I have my peavey vypyr amp connected directly to the laptop. then I go to options/prefrences/device then direct sound or wave out because those are the only two that will detect it. . output device vypyr usb interface. then there is some stuff on the bottom about buffers 8 . and 1024 samples. and then it says latency 185 ms. but what ever I do nothing seems to change
Click to expand...

You could download and try "ASIO4all". That might give you lower latency. Peavey are a well respected company and I would expect them to produce a decent product and a modelling amp with unusable latency is not one!

Do the mods I mentioned to the PC and then join the Peavey forum if you still have trouble, there does not seem to be a huge number of people on the Web with latency issues with the amps.

Dave.
 
The ASIO4all driver may help but the real solution is to record and monitor through your Steinberg interface. It's pretty much designed to solve this exact problem.

The CI1 (which you have, right?) has a simple one-knob system to balance between the live inputs and the playback from the DAW. Just remember to mute any armed tracks in the DAW. Connect the line out of the amp to the line input of the interface, set the record level, adjust the balance between input and output and the overall level in the headphones (connected to the Steinberg), record. It's that simple (though I left out some details you seem to know already). That simple one-knob system means you get absolutely no latency on your live inputs.

The hardest parts are installing drivers, making the DAW see which driver and device you want and setting inputs on tracks in the DAW the first few times. Then it's just set levels and record away. Aside from input latency there's sometimes record latency, or record offset, that you hear after recording instead of during. It's annoying but there's an adjustment for it somewhere in the DAW so it's fixable. Usually the system just compensates automatically.
 
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