Just a bit intimidated...

B

BeltaneInBoise

New member
The forum is so huge, with so many threads. And the following statement doesn't add to the intimidation factor at all! :o "if it's on a topic in another forum, best to post it there"... Love that! ;)

That being said, I'm a 61 year old guitar picker, new to home recording. However, I was intimately involved in my old band's professionally recorded CD. I understand the basics regarding eq, compression, etc. I don't have a laptop, so I purchased a Tascam DP-008EX digital recorder. My plan is to record with the Tascam and then transfer the individual tracks to my desktop computer for further processing and final mixing.

Here's the question: What is the most "beginner friendly" DAW that I might find. Reaper's price tag is great, but it looks quite complex. My fear is that I spend the 1st four weeks just figuring out how to assign processes to my midi controller. :) Mixcraft Pro 7 looks like a possibility, good bang for the buck and good reviews. But you all have far more experience with DAW's than I do.

Bottom line: I'm looking to take the music that's "in my head" and actually hear it coming back at me through speakers, but I don't want the software to become more time consuming than writing and performing the music itself. I apologize in advance if this this question is in the wrong location.
Any help would be really appreciated.
 
A lot of people here use Reaper and for good reasons. It works and it is not expensive. For all the DAW's, there is a huge learning curve. The good thing is because you already have experience with recording, you have a good head start and the programs, while not quite intuitive, will come quickly.

I'm not familiar with Mixcraft Pro, but I am familiar with the lighter versions of it. I recommend staying away from programs like that and Garage Band and the like. They might be easier to learn, but you'll soon outgrow their limitations and you'll want to move on to something less of a toy and more professional.

Invest the time to learn a proper DAW. It might take a few weeks, but it's time well spent. Once you get the basics down and some of the advance stuff, the technology won't be a stumbling block and you can focus on being creative.

I personally use Cubase, but any one of the major DAWs will work. Cubase, Sonar, Reaper, Pro-Tools. They all have light versions which are quite capable and will save money. Oh, Reaper doesn't have a light version, it's one version.

Welcome to the site. Enjoy the ride.
 
Thanks much Chili. "Outgrowing limitations" was an issue that I had considered. Was my question in the right location? The site is so large. I'm sure I'll get used to it.
 
BeltaneInBoise said:
Thanks much Chili. "Outgrowing limitations" was an issue that I had considered. Was my question in the right location? The site is so large. I'm sure I'll get used to it.
Click to expand...

Hey,
Don't panic too much, although thank you for asking.

There's always a mod about to move something if necessary.
That 'warning' is just so people don't go posting singing questions in the computer forum or whatever.

Welcome to HR, and +1 to what Chili said.
 
As a fellow "slightly more seasoned" citizen who grew up on cables and patch bays (okay, I still use all that stuff too), I can tell you that the learning curve is never ending, but you'll get it. Swearing, frustration, breakthrough, more swearing, forum searching, clarification posts, frustration, more breakthroughs, etc.

With most modern DAWs, "there's always a way to do it" and there's always several ways to screw it up. After awhile, you'll find a routine and everything will be great. Then you'll have to do something you've never done before and (see above). But it'll all work out eventually. :cool:
 
I have to agree that for the money, Reaper is the best solution. It's pretty wide open, but I haven't delved very far in as I've used Reason since 2000.

There are some large limitations to the software, but if you are old school about cables and such, the work flow is AMAZINGLY simple. Check out the free version of Reason. It makes recording in e-life really simple. It's also $100 off right now @ $299, if you want the full version after trying. :)
REASON 8


 
Since MIDI was mentioned I am going to suggest Cubase. I have it, Elements 6 and don't like it! But then I am a technician not a musician. My son IS a musician and although not as old as us (in 7unth year) he was getting grips with the DAW at 38ish and so it BY NO MEANS a pre-pubescent geek!

Yes, even the light version of Cubase is more expensive than Reaper (but you can still dabble with the latter for as long as you like and buy it if it "clicks") but really very good .

I am a bit worried as to how you will monitor the recordings "dumped" to the desktop? Does the Tascam act as a USB D to A converter with line outputs? There is certainly no analogue level control.

I would strongly suggest you consider an AI such as the Steinberg UR22. That gives you a light version of Cubase (and a cheaper upgrade path) plus the necessary feeds to monitors and proper control.

Dave.
 
Any software that can meet the needs of enough people to make it a viable product is going to have a lot of features. You'll find the tools that get your projects done and ignore the rest. I've been doing this for decades and I probably use 40-60% of a DAW's features.

For basic mixing all you really need to learn is how to put eq and a compression on track inserts, create an effects loop for some reverb, and manage levels.
 
ecc83 said:
Since MIDI was mentioned I am going to suggest Cubase. I have it, Elements 6 and don't like it! But then I am a technician not a musician. My son IS a musician and although not as old as us (in 7unth year) he was getting grips with the DAW at 38ish and so it BY NO MEANS a pre-pubescent geek!

Yes, even the light version of Cubase is more expensive than Reaper (but you can still dabble with the latter for as long as you like and buy it if it "clicks") but really very good .

I am a bit worried as to how you will monitor the recordings "dumped" to the desktop? Does the Tascam act as a USB D to A converter with line outputs? There is certainly no analogue level control.

I would strongly suggest you consider an AI such as the Steinberg UR22. That gives you a light version of Cubase (and a cheaper upgrade path) plus the necessary feeds to monitors and proper control.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave and thanks for your help.
The Tascam has a USB to connect to a computer. It also records to an SD card. I assumed that I can just put the card in my computer's SD reader and "voila"... saved tracks in the desktop ready to be sent to DAW. Of course this is only a theory, since I really don't know what the heck I'm doing! :)
Here is a link to the Tascam. Gets great reviews:
Amazon.com: TASCAM DP-008EX Digital Portastudio 8-Track Portable Multi-Track Recorder: Musical Instruments
 
BeltaneInBoise said:
Hi Dave and thanks for your help.
The Tascam has a USB to connect to a computer. It also records to an SD card. I assumed that I can just put the card in my computer's SD reader and "voila"... saved tracks in the desktop ready to be sent to DAW. Of course this is only a theory, since I really don't know what the heck I'm doing! :)
Here is a link to the Tascam. Gets great reviews:
Click to expand...


Yes, I have seen various reports on the recorder but my query is this..

When you have the tracks saved to the PC (and you are correct, they can be transferred via the SD card* or probably "dumped" via USB) you then need to work on them with whatever software you get but in order to do that you need to HEAR them really accurately. This can be done to limited extent on top quality headphones but not only is the general opinion that REALLY good mixes cannot be done on even very good cans but in any case the converters and headphones amplifiers built into PCs and laptops are universally crap.

You therefore need at the very least a decent interface (USB) to extract the audio and have some form of external analogue volume control. This can just feed headphones as a starter but good results will likely only come with good monitor speakers and an acoustically treated room (another can of worms and some expense!)

*Not many desktop PCs have card readers (actually I had one that had the slots. Never bloody worked!) but a $5 USB SD card reader solves that one. BTW save files as "dot" wavs at 44.1kHz and 24 bits if allowed.

Whatever you don't understand (I DO tend to rabbit!) keep asking!

Dave.
 
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ecc83 said:
Yes, I have seen various reports on the recorder but my query is this..

When you have the tracks saved to the PC (and you are correct, they can be transferred via the SD card* or probably "dumped" via USB) you then need to work on them with whatever software you get but in order to do that you need to HEAR them really accurately. This can be done to limited extent on top quality headphones but not only is the general opinion that REALLY good mixes cannot be done on even very good cans but in any case the converters and headphones amplifiers built into PCs and laptops are universally crap.

You therefore need at the very least a decent interface (USB) to extract the audio and have some form of external analogue volume control. This can just feed headphones as a starter but good results will likely only come with good monitor speakers and an acoustically treated room (another can of worms and some expense!)

*Not many desktop PCs have card readers (actually I had one that had the slots. Never bloody worked!) but a $5 USB SD card reader solves that one. BTW save files as "dot" wavs at 44.1kHz and 24 bits if allowed.

Whatever you don't understand (I DO tend to rabbit!) keep asking!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm already learning things! I always thought audio interfaces were for taking a signal from a mic or guitar and inputting only.
So I can use the interface to "pull" the sound from the computer, and plug monitor speakers into the interface to hear what I'm working on in the DAW? I just figured I'd upgrade my computer's speakers.
I also just realized that I'll need the USB interface for midi to record any virtual instruments I may want to use. I'm hoping it will make more sense as I assemble the various "ingredients" necessary for recording together.
Thanks again Dave!
John
 
Injecting another thought here. I use a few stand alone portables'- 4 track Ederol, RME UFX for live tracking.
They're great for out and about'.
But every time; transferring to the DAW, import the tracks into a project.. Then you get to start hearing and working with them etc. The things self contained recorder's have going for them- besides simplicity, which is also a double edge sword in limitations, is portability.

In the case where you'd have and learn you're way around a DAW... Unless you need the portability, it's just another bothersome layer to deal with. With more limitations than a decent four (or more) track interface to boot.
 
mixsit said:
Injecting another thought here. I use a few stand alone portables'- 4 track Ederol, RME UFX for live tracking.
They're great for out and about'.
But every time; transferring to the DAW, import the tracks into a project.. Then you get to start hearing and working with them etc. The things self contained recorder's have going for them- besides simplicity, which is also a double edge sword in limitations, is portability.

In the case where you'd have and learn you're way around a DAW... Unless you need the portability, it's just another bothersome layer to deal with. With more limitations than a decent four (or more) track interface to boot.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I need the portability so I'm stuck with the digital recorder for tracking tunes first :(
 
Morning John,
I have been reading the manual for the 008EX (I can only find a decent review of the earlier 008) and it seems that Tascam have addressed the song export issue. It was necessary it seems to convert from a "Tascam" format to ,wav but no longer and the EX model will transfer .wav directly via USB 2.0. That is for stereo "masters" I think it is possible to transfer individual tracks but might be a bit of a protracted faff! Anyone here got one of the wee beasties?

From the block signal diagram it seems I was right, the recorder cannot send USB signals from PC to speakers or headphones.

Yes John, you COULD use PC speakers to listen to and edit your creations. Indeed I have a pair of quite decent active wooden ones either side of my 32" telly and fed from a PC* that I use in my living room, mostly for listening to Radio 3 (just heard a bit of Chopin!) and they are quite acceptable for that purpose but I would not pretend that they are anywhere nearly good enough for music work. For that I use (well, Son did, me deaf'ish these days) a pair of Tannoy 5As in another room, dedicated to The Purpose.

*In fact the speakers are driven from an ESI 1010e m'track interface. Total waste of the AI I know but long story, will put it in "Contributions" one day if anyone wants the full SP!

Dave.
 
I'm going to come at this from a slightly different direction.

Most DAWs will do what you need--some have a greater emphasis on MIDI than others and so on but you could probably use most of them.

As others have said, Reaper is certainly a bargain in terms of price vs. features. However, none will be totally "beginner friendly". Whatever you choose, there's going to be a bunch of tutorial-watching and a learning curve. What I would suggest therefore is that you download the free trials of any DAW on your short list and just see how they feel to you. None will be easy--but you'll likely find that you feel more at home with some than with others. Once you get that feeling, that's probably the DAW to choose.

As for recording on a digital recorder and transferring into a desktop for mixing, that's actually a common way for professionals to work. I don't know your specific recorder but chances are it will work fine.

Have fun!
 
ecc83 said:
Morning John,
I have been reading the manual for the 008EX (I can only find a decent review of the earlier 008) and it seems that Tascam have addressed the song export issue. It was necessary it seems to convert from a "Tascam" format to ,wav but no longer and the EX model will transfer .wav directly via USB 2.0. That is for stereo "masters" I think it is possible to transfer individual tracks but might be a bit of a protracted faff! Anyone here got one of the wee beasties?


Dave.
Click to expand...
The wav files (16bit 44.1kHz mono and stereo) can still be exported or imported via USB. If you downloaded the same manual I grabbed it's page 80 or in the index under "Exporting Tracks".

John, Are you planning on multi-tracking (more than two tracks) the band or simply setting out a couple of mics for recording and ending up with a total of just two tracks?
 
Reaper (Cockos) has a pretty supportive user group that makes up their forum - so as well as it simply being more featured than mixcraft I'd argue that support is much better from Cockos.
 
Thanks for the info Dave. I'm glad I'll be able to transfer .wav files. Again, I didn't know that I could use the AI to listen to tracks as I'm working on them in the DAW. I'm hoping it will all make sense as I get all the pieces together. :)
 
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