Inputs from electric guitar are too "hot"

Xcaliber

Xcaliber

New member
I just bought a TASCAM US-1800 to replace my Audiobox USB interface because I read/heard that the Audiobox has no way to control the input signal (padding?) and that it can make your guitar input too "hot" which causes clipping. Whenever I record with Amplitube 3 in Studio One (directly into the unbalanced "guitar" inputs on the interface) I can never get the level/volume of the track down to a reasonable level, it seems like it's always "going red" (I'm sure there's a term for that, is it clipping?). I have to play with the input and output controls in Amplitube and I can sometimes get the levels to come down, but not always. Changing the gain on the interface doesn't help at all. I can even turn it all the way down and I get the same result.

I feel stupid now for buying the 1800 because it didn't solve my problem and I'm getting the exact same results. I'm questioning everything I thought I knew about these interfaces now. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.
 
What kind of guitar are you using. More importantly, what type of pickups?

Where, exactly are things "going red". Is it the input signal itself going into Amplitube, or is it output from Amplitube that is the problem? If in doubt, bypass the plugin and look at the meters in the DAW. If you could give us some numbers of what db level you're hitting both before and after Amplitube, it might help.

I have a US-1641, and its Instrument inputs (with the button set appropriately) add something like 10db of gain even with the gain knob all the way down. This will cause the hotter settings on some of my guitars to clip the input. I see more and more people complaining about this lately. The "Instrument" inputs on these things seem to make the assumption that guitar level input will be really low. It isn't always...

The best way that I have found to get around it is to run the guitar through a buffered pedal (Boss, DOD, Digitech, pretty much anything that doesn't specifically say that it is "True Bypass") and from there into one of the line inputs. On the US 1641, it can even be the same actual jack, just with the button pushed to the other.

OTOH - If you're just running it into much of any overdrive/distortion on the amp sim anyway, the concern re: clipping on the way in is almost completely moot. A little bit of opamp clipping at the interface will be masked by all of the simulated amp distortion and (especially) speaker filtering from Amplitube. You might want to bring down the levels in the DAW (or in Amplitube) to keep it from completely slamming the model, but I wouldn't worry about interface clipping unless you're really looking for a clean sound.
 
As a quick and easy bodge, try going into your US 1800 via a line level input rather than instrument level.
 
Bobbsy said:
As a quick and easy bodge, try going into your US 1800 via a line level input rather than instrument level.
Click to expand...

I mentioned this, but it really wants to be buffered first. An active guitar will be fine into the line input, but a passive one will lose a lot of treble and high mids. I can't imagine why they would switch both impedance and gain between the two, and I guess I've never proven that the impedance actually does change when I push the button... Maybe it'll just work?
 
Thanks for the replies. I believe it's after the plugin and I am using very high gain amp models (I'm recording metal songs). Maybe I'm just worrying when I don't need to. I'm pretty new to this and it could be I just need to learn more about it. I did try setting the input to line level instead of instrument level an it brought the levels down a bit, but it changed the sound a bit too. I wasn't too sure about that.

The thing I'm worried about more than the clipping (because it honestly doesn't sound bad) is getting the levels to a more manageable level so I can leave the headroom I need to mix and master. After I add the drums (programmed using EZ Drummer) it seems like the guitars are a lot louder in the mix and I'm thinking maybe I'm recording them too loud in the first place.

Thanks again for the answers. I'll try the couple of things that you suggested and get the numbers and report back ASAP.
 
Use the level of the input to hit the amp sim the way you need to get the sound you want. Use Amplitube's output control to get it down to mix-manageable levels. I find it hard to believe that knob doesn't allow enough attenuation, but I haven't touched Amplitube in a decade. If you really have to, just stick a clean gain or trim plugin after it and turn it down some more.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Use the level of the input to hit the amp sim the way you need to get the sound you want. Use Amplitube's output control to get it down to mix-manageable levels. I find it hard to believe that knob doesn't allow enough attenuation, but I haven't touched Amplitube in a decade. If you really have to, just stick a clean gain or trim plugin after it and turn it down some more.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I honestly didn't know that I should fiddle with those knobs at all since the presets in Amplitube have them all set in a certain way. That should solve the problem easily.

I appreciate the help and the suggestions.
 
Those knobs are the answer to the question.

FWIW - I run my guitars through a buffered pedal into a line level input as a habit because sometimes I do want actually clean guitars. There's no point in clipping the ADC (more likely the analog circuit that feeds it from the Instrument input) when I don't have to.

But, I have made the assumption that the amp sims are designed with the expectation that the guitar signal will have that extra 9 or 10 db of gain because everybody does it the "right" way. So I add that bit of gain with the input knob on the VST. There's really no point in calculating the gain difference. Just turn it up till it sounds and feels right. This does mean that some of my guitars will push the plugin's input meters to go beyond 0dbfs. At this point, though, we're in the realm of a floating point mix system with massive amounts of headroom. The signal doesn't actually get clipped. The amp sim will distort, but (theoretically at least) in the softer, more desireable way that the amp it's modeling might.

Turn the knobs on the "face" of the amp until it sounds good. The Volume knob on the amp itself sometimes actually affects the tone, so set that without regard to the final level in the mix. Just put it where it sounds good.

Then go adjust the output knob so that it comes up where you want it on the fader.

If it's not loud enough at your ears, turn up your monitors. ;)
 
I'll throw in one other option...buy a cheap DI (Direct Injection) box. This should fix the impedance issues and therefore the frequency response but also give you a Mic level imput you can simply adjust on the input to your Tascam. Frankly, this is the "proper" way to handle things anyhow but, depending on the pick ups, you can often get away with the line level bodge I mentioned. FYI, when I'm doing live stuff I always carry a couple of basic passive DIs in my box of adaptors.

As far as adjusting knobs goes, that's what they're there for!
 
To put the record straight for Tascam?
The guitar inputs clips at +10dBV, that is over 3volts rms and to put that in context that is more than you would be likely to get from a 9volt powered PEDAL or a similarly stoked active guitar.

Yes you should be totally fireproof on the line inputs which have a max in of +20dBu.

Warning! Hobby Horse a'galloping in! A high (1meg)Z attenuator is beer into water to make, or put a 1meg pot in a tin.

Home recording USED to be about electronic DIY and LARNIN'!

Dave.
 
I'm really lost here. One of my guitars (a line 6) can just pop the red on my Tascam, my passive ones can't. If I need to play the guitar this loud - then I just turn the guitar down a notch if I've run out of adjustment. Or, I switch to line and the impedance mismatch seems to make no difference. I have also noticed that occasional trips just into the red on the Tascam do not cause distortion suggesting that the switch to red from ok is set below 0dB in the D/A.

I'm surprised that passive pickups cause you problems. Or are they just making you 'think' you have a problem? Not the same thing.
 
rob aylestone said:
I'm really lost here. One of my guitars (a line 6) can just pop the red on my Tascam, my passive ones can't. If I need to play the guitar this loud - then I just turn the guitar down a notch if I've run out of adjustment. Or, I switch to line and the impedance mismatch seems to make no difference. I have also noticed that occasional trips just into the red on the Tascam do not cause distortion suggesting that the switch to red from ok is set below 0dB in the D/A.

I'm surprised that passive pickups cause you problems. Or are they just making you 'think' you have a problem? Not the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, see Rob, peeps don't like "just turning down the guitar"!
Some 6 years ago a small amp came on the market (no names, no packdrill!") that had the problem that IF you hit it with a flatout, really hot humbucker, OR a flat out active AND the mains was at top 10%, it would "fart out" and make a nasty noise. Now yes, this was a marginal design level error and easily fixed with a free mod but had people used a bit of gumption they could have just backed off the guitar volume a tad (btw, one "tad" =6dB!) .

But they don't because they fear/imagine the dreaded "tone suck". Don't 'appen unless you have 5mtr lead and can't happen to an active guitar unless the designer of the onboard amp was cnut.

Dave.
 
Hmmm, I had the same problem yesterday. My new US-1800 and my guitar (stock Cali II from Hamer) played nice together as long as I was using a sim in amplitube, but when I bypassed the amp, the guitar was so hot I 'bout blew the speakers! Twas not great distortion. :)
Running through the rack in Reason gave me the same problem. As long as the sim (not sure if I was using Line 6 or a Combinator patch) was on, no problem. Bypass and the guitar is way to loud.
Guitar runs EMG H4's bridge and neck. No battery, so I'm assuming it's not active. Have to go to work the next couple days and won't have any free time. I'll try to play with the switches on the 1800 Monday and see what's up.
 
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