Ideal home recording setup

Franklittle256

New member
So I'm building a home recording studio. I have an sm57 and an akg414 xls for Mics. I use the akg for both micing my guitar Cab and vocals. I am using the Scarlett 2i4 for my interface which has been great up until now. I'm using hs8s for my monitors and have acoustically treated the room. Now I'm at the point of researching hardware. I've been doing so for weeks maybe even monthes at this point. I've looked into expensive setups and cheap setups. What I need is a hardware setup that I will be able to record at the very least 2 Mics at a time. The main use of the studio will be to record singer songwriter type music. I will not be tracking drums in my home studio at any time in the foreseeable future as I could just rent out a studio if I needed to. Basically I want the highest quality setup within reason that I can track guitars with as well as vocals. I want to have very low latency. What do I need from analog to digital to get the job done. I guess what I'm really asking is for suggestions on a hardware chain.
 
The most important area that will reap improvement is IMHO better monitors* and not just a 'bit' better!

To get a significant step up in quality you need to be looking at the Focal/ PMC/ Neumann sort of area (though Pioneer of all people seem to have made great inroads lately!) .

Then you want very low latency. Well, let's start at the top! RME, yes, pricey but, you are virtually guaranteed THE lowest latency that can be achieved over USB (2.0) or TB if you have it. RME will also last and last. Not only is the kit supremely well made but the company keep one step ahead of all the OS shennagins of mssrs Msot and Apple. VERY unlikely to have to replace it.

Lower down the food chain is MOTU (V good but one reads little?) then Focusrite, Presonus etc. If 2 in 2 out + MIDI will do you, the Zoom UAC-2 is said to be excellent. For more connectivity the Native Instruments KA6 is STILL the best, sub £200 AI I know of for V stable drivers and low latency.

*Also buy a modest Sound Level Meter with a C weighting, then read 'Massive's Missive' re monitor calibration.

Dave.
 
The most important area that will reap improvement is IMHO better monitors* and not just a 'bit' better!

To get a significant step up in quality you need to be looking at the Focal/ PMC/ Neumann sort of area (though Pioneer of all people seem to have made great inroads lately!) .

Can't argue with that!
My recent bump-up to the Focal Twins has been very rewarding, and the difference very obvious.
Yeah...not cheap, but you only live once. ;)
 
BTW, you can record two mics with the Scarlet 2i4 - the fact that you stress this is what 'you want to do' means you probably have some learning yet to do.
 
Thanks for the condescending nature of your response you accomplished the goal of offering absolutely no insight. The scarlet 2i4 is honestly a cheap piece of garbage at the end of the day. I did say it has been great for me up until now. It does not provide high quality sound. I'm trying to improve the quality of my recordings. The 2i4 is an amazing entry level interface but it just isn't getting the job done.
 
Thanks for the condescending nature of your response you accomplished the goal of offering absolutely no insight. The scarlet 2i4 is honestly a cheap piece of garbage at the end of the day. I did say it has been great for me up until now. It does not provide high quality sound. I'm trying to improve the quality of my recordings. The 2i4 is an amazing entry level interface but it just isn't getting the job done.

I think you are a little thin skinned Frank. Mike is a good bloke and you have misunderstood him.

I have always thought the lower end of the Focusrite kit was a bit pricey for the facilities you get but "cheap garbage" the 2i4 is not.

A geat many people make excellent recordings with the 2i2 and 2i4 interfaces. The mic amps are universally acclaimed to be AS good as anything 3 or 4 times the price (though as an electronics tech I know that making a very good mic pre these days is pretty simple) .
The converters are good enough that they are unlikely to be 'noticed' unless you have MUCH better monitors, almost a 'pro' treated room and an impeccable source. It is a fact that AIs in the $200-$400 price range are FAR from the weakest link in the recording chain.

IF the F'rite 2i4 has a failing it might be that latency is not as low as you would like. This afflicts most modest USB AIs. "They" ALL claim 'Ultra Low Latency' but few really deliver.

So, post a clip of the 'garbage' the 2i4 produces and let those here with the experience and ears (NOT I!) give their opinions.

Dave.
 
I don't think I really misunderstood him. His reply was condescending and really offered absolutely no insight but I digress. The point of this thread is to discuss possible chains. For example different interfaces, what mic pres and compressors said person enjoys using. I purely want input on what gear y'all are using to get the job done. I would like suggestions rather than pointless replies that offer no substance to the overall conversation. The 2i4 has ok mic pres sure but they are basically lifeless. Something you hit on which is important is the well known fact that the 2i4 and other low end I/O's have too much latency. The 2i4 could have world class mic pres with a built in world class eq and compressor but if I can't record accurately to a click track what does it matter. At any rate, I want to get back to the objective of this forum. If you or anyone else has suggestions or insight I am more than open to anyone's input.

Thanks
 
Well Frank, YOU are the seven poster noob whilst Mike has cracked 10,000. A little deference is in order IMHO.

Mic amps 'lifeless'? So, wddayawant? Hum? Hiss? Distortion? They are NOT lifeless they are clean and accurate. These are the fundamental properties of GOOD mic pre amps. If you want 'attitude' then you will have to look at specialist (expensive!) pre amps that incorporate valves and/or transformers or other 'grungifying' devices.

I am Old School, get the sound in the can with maximum fidelity. THEN start effing about with it if you want (mostly I don't)

But,suggestions? Neve pres are reputed to have 'A' sound. Up for those prices? If you can find one the Audient Mico had a 'harmonic enhancer' . Behringer do a 'tube' pre!

From all I have learned (from guys like Mike!) over the last ten years there is no 'magic pre' or DAW or 'mix fixer' ! If it ain't near enough good enough first time it is unlikely to polish up! (and remember: IF you grunge, compress, EQ'ed on the way in you have fucked it. No going back) .

Latency, yes, as I said up top, the cheaper USB AIs were not that good but they are now much better. Check out reviews of the F'rite Gen ll series. Again RME will solve ALL you latency issues (but you still get VERY clean and accurate pre amps!) .

Lastly, please remember what Bambie's mum said!

Dave.
 
Frank - I was not trying to be condescending or whatever else you are trying to read into my post. I was merely commenting on one of your statements.
Like Dave indicates, the 2i4 is perfectly fine, and I think you need to look at other reasons your recordings are not what you want. New gear usually doesn't help much - spending 5X as much usually gets you about 5% increase in sound quality.
 
So are you suggesting that a neve 511 into a Lynx Hilo or burl b1 into a comparable a/d converter would not sound better than a 2i4? I get where you're coming from the law of diminishing returns is something I'm aware of. I did get some better Mics i.e. The akg 414 xls which I noticed made an absolutely astronomical difference in the quality.
 
Also after almost fully treating my room I have noticed a huge difference. The last thing I need to do is fully treat the poorly placed window in my room :/.
 
"The akg 414 xls which I noticed made an absolutely astronomical difference in the quality.

Apples and oranges Frank. To compare a 50+yr old designed dynamic to a $1000 capacitor mic from a major mnfctr is a bit dim. The SM57 is a great mic for its intended purpose (not really in fact a VOCALS mic!) but bandwidth and response flatness leave something to be desired.

As for the esoteric hardware? I would aver that if both sets of gear are run well within their dynamic limits you would be hard put to tell the difference on a blind test. You would certainly need very good monitors.

There is a mic pre amp 'Shootout' in SoSound (about 2012 iirc) using a MIDI robot grand Joe. Very interesting results. Long-short...Nobody could freakin' tell!

It would be interesting to hear YOUR definition of "quality" and hear some clips of what YOU consider good and bad? (no good to me, clinically deaf. 20dB down at 2kHz and then lugs go off a cliff. I hear 50Hz hum V well tho'but!)

Dave.
 
When did I compare the sm57 to the akg c414? And yes the 57 is amazing for close micing guitar amps and sometimes people use them for acoustic guitars close miced. I'm pretty sure if I was blind tested on which chain was which between an akg414 into a 2i4 versus an akg414 into a high end pre and digital converter I would be able to tell the difference but that is neither here nor there.
 
When did I compare the sm57 to the akg c414? And yes the 57 is amazing for close micing guitar amps and sometimes people use them for acoustic guitars close miced. I'm pretty sure if I was blind tested on which chain was which between an akg414 into a 2i4 versus an akg414 into a high end pre and digital converter I would be able to tell the difference but that is neither here nor there.

I am one of those strange people that go by what people say and the information I am given. You only mentioned the 57 and the AKG. You then went on to say the 414 made an 'astronomical' difference.
Give those two statements what other conclusion could I draw than you were comparing the two microphones?

The blind test is VERY much 'here or there'! We (not actually THIS 'I' for the obvious reason!) all THINK we can tell the difference between high end and mid range gear but time out of number it has been shown that people can't. Even seasoned equipment reviewers A/B testing converters tell us that it is incredibly difficult to separate them.
First off you have to match levels to better than 0.5dB (and you don't read like the sort of bloke who would bother) Then, even if a difference is detected it is a PREFERENCE and that can swap for different genres of music used for the tests.

Once you get to a noise floor below 100dBFS or so converters only really differ in the jitter performance and THAT, afaik, is very content specific to pin down. But better 'digital men' than I would no doubt tell us more.

You still have not defined 'quality' Frank or provided any clips.

Dave.
 
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