I could do with a little guidance - audio for a small budget video setup

S

sugarman

New member
Hello

First post, so I'll introduce myself. My name is John. I live in Chapel Hill, NC, and I am a full time soccer coach.
I have been asked to put together a series of coaching videos. So far these have been skype interviews using a free tool to record them. In future I’ll be capturing parts of my screen, adding video from other sources, etc. I am trying out Wirecast at the moment, and love everything about it but the price. Although I am being paid for the videos, it is not much. This is a small budget setup.

The current setup

Laptop
Samsung Series 9 ultrabook, i7 @ 1.7, 8gb ram, 250gb ssd. It is running Windows 8.1 which I am happy with, but willing to switch to linux if needed. I have cubase le, ableton live lite, and reason limited. I also have Audacity and the full version of Adobe Audition.
Wirecast is fantastic. It is expensive though. I am trying out xsplit at the moment. Live broadcasting is not a requirement. I am new to video editing though and these two have caught my eye.

Camera
I spent a long time looking at DSLR’s. Their 20 minute video limitation is a show stopper. HD cameras like the vixia are tempting, but I’d need a blackmagic type box to convert the signal into the laptop. In the end I opted for the Logitech C920 webcam. It is surprisingly good. 720 easily, 1080 at a push I think. For skype interviews where I don’t need a big depth of field it is good enough. At seventy bucks the price is good as well. For filming at the field I am hoping I can get something from my old point and click (powershot s95). Failing that I’ll push a gopro or smartphone. Most of video will be webcam and desktop stuff. I am not too concerned field stuff right now. The audio line is where I could really do with some advice.
 
Current Audio Chain
My voice -> Zoom h4n in usb mic mode -> laptop -> external usb powered soundcard -> headphones

The external usb soundcard is a Line6 UX1 guitar effects box. It is pretty good at what it does. I have no idea what it is like for vocals though. Whilst it has a mic input, line in and stereo monitor inputs, I have not tried them.

I have having trouble balancing the audio levels of the people on skype, and myself. I only picked up the h4n a week ago, so can still return it.
  1. Keep everything as it is. Stop over-thinking this.
  2. Use h4n in usb mode, with one of its guitar effects to add compression.
  3. Use h4n in usb mode, with external mic (the at2020 is only $50 at the moment).
  4. Return the h4n. Buy a mixer, compressor, sonic maximizer and mic.
  5. Use h4n in line out mode, into sonic maximizer
  6. The usb sound card I have has a mic input. Not sure how good it is, and certain it is not powered. I could return the h4n, and get a Heil pr40 mic.

I guess this comes down to the quality of the pre-amps in low priced mixers, and how they’d compare to the h4n. I’d love to have faders on a mixer to help balance the levels, but don’t want to take a step back from the h4n.

On my local Craigslist there is a Mackie 16.8 for 150, and alesis 3630 for $50. There is a Guitar Center nearby that has the usual. The Berhinger UBB1002 is probably going to make some of you throw up in your mouth, but looks the best value for my level.
What do you think? Is there another way to approach this?

Thanks in advance,
John
 
Morning John,
First off, I know next to Jack about video work! But my son has dabbled so bits have rubbed off.

For software I would look at Sony Vegas. There are about 6 versions ranging in price from about $50 to $800! The great thing is that each version can be downloaded and used for a month (I think, used to be...) so that's the summer sorted! Heh! Well at least you get to try and can pitch the expenditure more precisely and I think they all have an upgrade path so as you get slicker and more "Pro"?......

Son however found Camtasia suited him better and there is a trial version of that again, fully operational AFAIK.

Soundwise? My choice would be for a good, solid Audio interface and some mics on stands, broom handles etc! I would urge you not to look for hardware solutions to level issues. Use Reaper as a DAW and sort levels out in that. Record everything with a ton of headroom. Run 24 bits at 48kHz and keep average levels down at -20 even -25dBFS (if those last figures mean nothing to you John, you have a bit to learn!).

I am sure some experienced video'ers will be along shortly.

Dave.
 
Dave is on the mark about how to record voice over.
Your computer should be more than adequate.
If you're using the zoom for crowd noise and recording live sounds at the game, it's probably a great device, but I think a cheap condenser and an interface with phantom power will do a better job with vocal.
Use a D(igigal) A(udio) W(orkstation). You have listed several that you have. I am a Reason user myself. By Reason Limited, to you mean Reason Essentials?
Take a week and learn the basics. Assign the skype audio to one channel and yours to a second. Read a lot about compression and how it works and get to know how to automate a fader where necessary.
I'll give a second nod to Vegas. I have Platinum, but I'm not sure of all the levels from Basic up and what they do. I use it to do presentations to music at church.
I live in Clinton. If you'd like some one on one time, PM me.
 
Thank you both for the advice. I typed out a long reply, and the webpage timed out. So this is take two, and may make less sense.
I took the advice, returned the zoom h4n and went with a mixer and condensor microphone setup. So far, so good. I have a few questions though and will value any feedback you have.

Mixer
I went with a yamaha mg mixer that can also double as a usb interface. The onboard compression effect tempted me, as did the advertised 24/192 resolution. I guess the yamaha driver up-samples the signal? If I used the balanced xlr outs from the mixer would it sound better? If so, do you know of any external soundcards that can do the ad conversion at the higher resolution? This whole part confuses me because surely any external soundcard is going to be usb connected, and so bandwidth restricted.

Microphone
Guitar Center had the Audio Technica 2020 on sale for fifty dollars. I figured at that price it would be good to get for the short term. Would you mind listening to an audio sample of my voice, and then suggesting a complimentary microphone?

Signal Processing
I think I am going to go with hardware over vst. The plan is to clean up my vocals before they hit the computer. The onboard compression effect in the mixer is not what I hoped for. So I am looking at the DBX286s. This also has a gate which will help in my noisy spare room. Many years ago I had a bbe sonic maximizer on a home stereo. I loved it. I am toying with the idea of putting one after the compressor. Any thoughts on this?

Dave, could you expand on your comment “I would urge you not to look for hardware solutions to level issues”? I am not opposed to using software. My hope is for a set it and forget it solution. Or as close to that as possible.

Software
After trying out all the suggestions, I am liking camtasia the most. It is not as smooth as wirecast, but is more intuitive. I wish the bundled overlay images were better. I guess that sort of thing could be outsourced right? I hope so because I think Adobe After Effects is beyond me. There was another side to the software that I had not previously considered; the skype recorder. The one I was using would essentially screen grab the skype call. I am trying out alternatives that save each video image and audio track separately.

I have a question about recording levels. The led meter on the mixer runs from +10 down to -20 dB. So to record my vocals with plenty of head room I barely want the leds to light at all right?
Tomorrow I am going to try and build a small vocal box to house the microphone. I am also going to try and nail down the best settings for the webcam. I also have to prep for an interview on Monday with ESPN. It is exciting times!

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the setup, and best way forwards. Thanks also for the kind offer of some one on one time. That is extremely kind.

Thanks again – and Happy Easter!

John
 
John, handy forum tip. When composing big posts, just before hitting "post" select all the text and hit 'ctrl' + 'c', that way you have a copy in your clipboard in case something sinister happens. It can be very frustrating to spend lots of time and effort only to see everything you wrote gone forever.

If I know it's going to be a long one, I'll compose it in my google mail, as it autosaves itself along the way. Even safer.
 
"Mixer
I went with a yamaha mg mixer that can also double as a usb interface. The onboard compression effect tempted me, as did the advertised 24/192 resolution. I guess the yamaha driver up-samples the signal? If I used the balanced xlr outs from the mixer would it sound better? If so, do you know of any external soundcards that can do the ad conversion at the higher resolution? This whole part confuses me because surely any external soundcard is going to be usb connected, and so bandwidth restricted."

A usb mixer that runs 24 bits at 192kHz? Exact model please! In any event there is absolutely no point in a 192kHz sampling rate for "normal" audio recording. In fact 44.1kHz is fine for most of us, then, you need to be at 48kHz for video and even if 192k WAS better (it ain't) all advantage would be lost in the conversion process.

There is no bandwidth "restriction" on USB, even the old 1.1 ran at 12MEGA Hertz, well above a piddling 192kilo Hertz. Latest spec I have seen for USB 2.0 is 64 channels (at 24 bits, 96k I believe).

Hardware processing John? Unless you can have $1000 comps' per channel, most folks say software is better. Then, once you have processed you signals there is no undoing it. Record flat, uncompressed and "raw". Just keep levels down at neg 20 and tweak it all after.

N.B. That^ is the sound man's way of recording, maybe video peeps do different due to time restraints?

Dave.
 
Okay, first off the lost message. If you check the "Remember Me" box when you log on, the system won't log you off. This site also autosaves your work and if you time out or lose the post, when you start your cursor in the Reply box a "Restore Autosaved Information" box will appear in the lower left.
Mixer. the Yamaha seems to be a great board. the 24/192 is overkill, but anything over 24/44 is fine. Some don't even go beyond 16/44. As far as bandwidth goes, you'd be hard pressed to get 480 Mbits per second out of two microphones. (USB 2.0's effective bandwidth.)
Microphone. The AT 2020 you're looking at is XLR (some are USB), so that's probably a go for a cheap starter mike. YES! absolutely post clips.
Processing. External has advantages. There is a certain warmth you only get from the exciting of transistors via voltage that cannot be completely accurately reproduced in a VST. External has disadvantages. Whatever signal goes in, you are stuck with. With a VST you can redo as many times as you'd like and considering we're dealing with a $50 microphone and not a $!k Neuman or Blue, you might be throwing away some money. The Sonic Maximizer is a lovely piece of equipment. Wish I still had mine. I believe what Dave was referring to was "Leveling via compression" which is not the worlds greatest idea (which is why I recommended learning to ride a fader when necessary.)
The software you've chosen, I've never even heard of, so I'm going to remain silent on that.
Some sit-down engineering, work through the bugs time is still on the table if you're interested. We're only an hour and a half apart...
Happy Easter to you, too! He is risen, indeed!
 
When you were using the H4n as a usb mic, why you didn't just plug headphones into the H4n?
I don't see the purpose of the second sound card interface.
 
This being composed in word, before being copied and pasted ;)

Thanks for all the comments. I am taking them on board.I have spent the last couple of days trying to sort the video side of this out. I am still pricing out equipment, but I think I am getting closer. I have found the videos at wistia to be really helpful. Now I have a moment to turn back to the audio.

A recording clip will be coming soon. I have been offered the loan of an audio technica 875R. I’ll record a clip on that as well. It has been hard to record at a low level without getting too much ambient noise. Even the tiniest amount of gain brings in buzzing noises. I worked out that hand holding the mic helped. Not really practical for interviews though. A shockmount is in the post, and I am looking at DIY room treatments.

I have been playing around with Adobe Audition. I particularly like the Phase and Frequency Analysis views. They are very cool. It was also interesting to try the built in effects. I was impressed. I guess I am coming to terms with the fact that I’ll have to post produce the audio and the video. Still I’d like to try the hardware route to see how it compares. It not that I am cash rich and time poor. I am cash poor and extremely time poor.

More of an update coming. I just wanted to post something to show that I am not ignoring all the help and appreciate the support.
Oh and regarding the zoom h4n. In usb mode it works as a usb microphone not as an audio interface. So if I plugged headphones into it then I’d only hear my own voice and not the interviewee.
 
Here is a link to a shared folder which contains different audio clips. I cant post a url until I have 10 posts, so here you go: Add the usual in front of the following 1drv.ms/1il2TXv

The ambient sounds you may be able to hear
  • birds chirping
  • laptop fan
  • inquisitive cat

If I try to record any louder I get a very noticeable hum.
 
Sugarman, the H4n works fine as a complete audio interface... at least it does in Windows.
You can monitor mic input in real time, and if you set the H4n as the default output device in the Windows sound mapper, the computer's sound plays through the H4n's headphones or speaker if headphones are not present.
I just re-tested this and confirmed that it works as expected.
 
Hmmm, thinking about it a bit, I hadn't tested with Skype, but it would surprise me if it wouldn't work if configured as the default sound device. Considering that you've moved on to other gear, it's now just academic.
 
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