How to use an analogue mixer to DAW multitrack recording, mixing and monitoring

S

Se7en-Costanza

New member
Hey Guys,
I was just after some advice to how i would go about plugging my 24 channel Soundcraft LX7 Analogue Mixer into my Mac to multitrack record on my DAW (of preference) which is Ableton Live. (I'm sure this works fairly the same as Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic or any other DAW, I just personally prefer Ableton for It's layout and my years of experience using it).

So what i want to be able to do is use 16 of my channels on my Soundcraft mixer as direct channels to Ableton, which i can track and mix with using the faders and EQ on the Mixer.

I own two audio interfaces which I think I'll need to do this, a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, and an M-Audio Ultra8R, which are both 8 Channel interfaces.
I have in the past dualed both of these interfaces together so I could record drums with 15 mic's (a little extreme i know, but it was a bit of an experiment). How I've always recorded is directly plugging microphones into my audio interfaces as they record onto Ableton. Now i own a Soundcraft mixer I would like to be recording using this, as I like their preamps and on board EQ, but i would also like to route the channels on Ableton back into the mixer so i can monitor and mix with the desk's EQ, faders and auxiliary controls, as well as the outboard gear i have connected to my mixer. Is it possible?...

The soundcraft mixer has 24 inputs in total, and direct outputs on 16 of the channels, as well as inserts on all channels, if that helps with figuring out how to go about doing this.

Thanks guys, hope you can help!
 
You seem to be very familiar with your gear...you know all your inputs and outputs...etc...
...so just connect the outs to ins. :)

I mean...there's not much to it.
Outputs from the console to the interface inputs...outputs from the interface to the mixer inputs. If the mixer has "Tape" or "Monitor" inputs, you can leave it all connected in both directions.
If you only have the 24 channel inputs...get a patch bay, and switch the connections as needed...etc.
It's really up to you to figure out how you want to connect things, based on how you want to work....how you want to monitor...etc.

I'm sure the manuals will get you going in the right direction.
 
Would i need to use the inserts to route the audio back into the same channel? or will i have to use the diect ouputs of the 16 channels then route the ableton DAW channels out into the inputs of other channels on the desk? (if that makes sense)
 
better explained, say im talking about just 1 channel here, would i use an insert cable with the send of the insert cable to in first input on my audio interface, with the return of the insert cable plugging into the output of channel 1 on the audio interface. So it routes back into the same channel on the desk, would this work? Or would it feedback or something this way?

I might need to get a patchbay though to save a lot of confusion with cables.
 
It would seem that you could just use your interfaces as a 'tape machine' the 'tape' would be your daw.
Any hardware effects could be plugged in to the mixer as normal in a tape scenario.
 
Se7en-Costanza said:
Hey Guys,
I was just after some advice to how i would go about plugging my 24 channel Soundcraft LX7 Analogue Mixer into my Mac to multitrack record on my DAW (of preference) which is Ableton Live. (I'm sure this works fairly the same as Pro Tools, Cubase, Logic or any other DAW, I just personally prefer Ableton for It's layout and my years of experience using it).

So what i want to be able to do is use 16 of my channels on my Soundcraft mixer as direct channels to Ableton, which i can track and mix with using the faders and EQ on the Mixer.

I own two audio interfaces which I think I'll need to do this, a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, and an M-Audio Ultra8R, which are both 8 Channel interfaces.
I have in the past dualed both of these interfaces together so I could record drums with 15 mic's (a little extreme i know, but it was a bit of an experiment). How I've always recorded is directly plugging microphones into my audio interfaces as they record onto Ableton. Now i own a Soundcraft mixer I would like to be recording using this, as I like their preamps and on board EQ, but i would also like to route the channels on Ableton back into the mixer so i can monitor and mix with the desk's EQ, faders and auxiliary controls, as well as the outboard gear i have connected to my mixer. Is it possible?...

The soundcraft mixer has 24 inputs in total, and direct outputs on 16 of the channels, as well as inserts on all channels, if that helps with figuring out how to go about doing this.

Thanks guys, hope you can help!
Click to expand...

I know this is not what you want to hear, If you have 16 inputs to your DAW then using the mixer is a waste, the reason why I say this is because I went the same route in the beginning, I have a 24 channel console with 8 sub groups, a B mix for each channel, and a direct out for each channel, why not just go directly into the interface and cut out the mixer? it is much cleaner and easier. I spent tons of money I did not need to spend, I am old school and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the DAW age, but after I made the leap, it is awesome. one member here, I will not call him out, said" for fucks sake when you have awesome pre amps on your interface, why go through a mixer"? it sold me. I am glad I ditched the mixer.:D
 
The direct output would plug into the input of the interface.

The output of the interface would plug into the line input of the channel.

Repeat that for all the channels.

BTW, 16 channels for drums is pretty normal for me.
 
That's totally fair, the main reason i want to do this is I'm a big fan of using analog gear, I'm aware of it not being the 'cleanest' way as all analog gear adds noise to the signal. I really want to get used to using analog gear as i've always used digital and feel like my knowledge with analog gear is minimal and would like to get more and more used to it, as it is also a hobbie of mine.
Plus i really want to use the on board EQ for each channel and auxilary sends to outboard gear. As im sick of using digital plugins, eq and effects as i feel there is not much character with them and are incredibly transparent. Plus all my influences and interests in music and recording are from old music which is recorded with desks and tape machines. I also have an 8 track tascam atr-60 which id like to get working as well, which i can use this same procedure I'm asking about on this forum with but without the audio interfaces. (but that's not really what im asking about in this thread anyway yet haha)

But really summed up I'm not necessarily after pristine commercial sounding recordings, but more of an 80's-90's indie studio sound with the idea to learn more and more about analog gear in the process, which is something i really desire.
 
Thanks Farview! I'll try that out, that seems more straightforward and less of a headache to route and figure out haha. Ill update this to see how i go to let other people trying to figure out how to do this do the same.
 
Ordinarily, the mixer/AI combination is a waste of time and equipment (but,if all is of good quality AND you sort your levels* out, I cannot see any SOUND quality issue?)
But, that is a very nice mixer by a top maker and employs the "padless pre amps" which give low noise and high headroom, better I would aver than either of those AIs? There is also the advantage of 4 group selectable spook juice, don't get THAT on many AIs! So, all in all that mixer makes for a fabulous front end.

Now, routing AI outs back. Patchbay? Yes but hardly practical for a quick switch over? I have given the "insert" monitoring problem some thought in the past and done a few scribblings. You need a switch box to take each of the 16 outs and 16 inserts and then a switch to select "thru" from the mixer's front end or "return" from the AI.

*I cannot immediately find a user manual and full specc' for the mixer but would think it runs the DOuts at +4dBu? If so you might need some attenuation at the AI end so as to get the mixer's meters aligned with the DAW's. The internal levels of inserts are often intermediate twixt +4 and neg 10 so again a bit of attenuation might be in order. (I shall check Duggy Self's book for the level, he WAS "Mr Soundcraft"!

Getting the levels sorted might seem a pain and maybe you are happy to fly by trouser seat! I am a bit anal about levels I must admit!

Dave.
 
A lot of people have ditched consoles.
Me, I got both console and itb.
What I lose in the way of 'pristine' sound, I make up for in fatness, character, and Faders. Love faders, hate mice and keyboards. For mixing you can do fader moves on the fly that itb would require thought and editing time. On a console it's instananeous.
Hey, it's all good. They are just the tools, not the music. The music is created by the operator of the tools. There are no rules. Use whatever tools that get you what you want.
:D
 
Jay, I had assumed plugging into a line input would defeat the signal from the mic pre as it does on AIs and many mixers. As I said, can't find a manual so maybe this one has selectable mic/line switching?

In which case OP, forget the box! I go back under my rock.

Dave.
 
I like having a big mixer for its preamps and for mixing monitors when recording a group, not the final mixing. I can put reverb in the headphone mix (that doesn't get recorded) and add eq, compression etc. to the signal going into the computer. After that it's all ITB.

You should be able to get the sound you want without resorting to manual mixing with outboard and all that. What happens at the mic matters most.
 
Se7en-Costanza said:
That's totally fair, the main reason i want to do this is I'm a big fan of using analog gear, I'm aware of it not being the 'cleanest' way as all analog gear adds noise to the signal. I really want to get used to using analog gear as i've always used digital and feel like my knowledge with analog gear is minimal and would like to get more and more used to it, as it is also a hobbie of mine.
Plus i really want to use the on board EQ for each channel and auxilary sends to outboard gear. As im sick of using digital plugins, eq and effects as i feel there is not much character with them and are incredibly transparent. Plus all my influences and interests in music and recording are from old music which is recorded with desks and tape machines. I also have an 8 track tascam atr-60 which id like to get working as well, which i can use this same procedure I'm asking about on this forum with but without the audio interfaces. (but that's not really what im asking about in this thread anyway yet haha)

But really summed up I'm not necessarily after pristine commercial sounding recordings, but more of an 80's-90's indie studio sound with the idea to learn more and more about analog gear in the process, which is something i really desire.
Click to expand...

I agree, I am a live guy at heart, I like knobs and faders, I have a SX 4882, it has awesome routing functions, a direct out for each channel, as well as a B mix for each channel and a built in talk buss. plus I have another 2 grand in outboard gear, I still use it for live stuff but for recording I find it much easier to record the DAW route, it was a hard choice but it works better for me. but you have to choose what is best for you.
 
Atkron205 said:
...why not just go directly into the interface and cut out the mixer?
Click to expand...

I would have said the same...but he said he wants to use the mixer's preamps & EQ during tracking.

In my case, I use mostly standalone pres...so I hardly ever use my mixer to record through (though now that I picked up a Trident 24 London, I will possibly use a couple of its channel pres on some stuff)...
...so the mixer, during tracking, is only used for setting up cue mixes and monitoring the playback (I'm initilaly tracking to tape, then dumping to DAW).

I do use the mixer when it's time to mix down, and I run 24 channels out from the DAW to the mixer...and then I can also use my outboard processing vie the mixers inserts and Aux buses.
 
The OP has also posted in the "analogue forum" a little while back that he had purchased a Tascam ATR-60 8 trk r2R
recorder yet seems to be ignoring that here :confused::confused:
 
ecc83 said:
Jay, I had assumed plugging into a line input would defeat the signal from the mic pre as it does on AIs and many mixers. As I said, can't find a manual so maybe this one has selectable mic/line switching?

In which case OP, forget the box! I go back under my rock.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Actually, I didn't think it through. My ghost could switch between the tape inputs and the mic/line inputs. I forgot that his board might not have that feature.

The op will have to figure a way to switch between record mode and playback mode. Which likely means plugging the main outputs of the daw into the last two channels of the board (or a stereo return) to hear playback while recording. Then, plugging all the individual outputs from the daw into the line inputs of the channels for the mix.

That's the main difference between a recording mixer and a live mixer... a recording mixer will have tape returns and a way to switch between mic input and tape input on each channel.
 
What I did was I just split the board. Channels 1-16 were for recording and channels 17-32 were for playback. But I wasn't mixing through the board, that was for monitoring purposes.

The couple times I mixed through the board, i.was.able to.just flip the switch.

The reality is that once you are done tracking drums, just about everything else will be one or two inputs. If you dedicate 2 channels to daw playback during tracking, once you are ready to mix you can just patch the rest of the channels and send them stems.
 
Farview said:
Actually, I didn't think it through. My ghost could switch between the tape inputs and the mic/line inputs. I forgot that his board might not have that feature.

The op will have to figure a way to switch between record mode and playback mode. Which likely means plugging the main outputs of the daw into the last two channels of the board (or a stereo return) to hear playback while recording. Then, plugging all the individual outputs from the daw into the line inputs of the channels for the mix.

That's the main difference between a recording mixer and a live mixer... a recording mixer will have tape returns and a way to switch between mic input and tape input on each channel.
Click to expand...

Then I shall emerge! (this next will make sens only to Jay. I filled in the form with EXACTLY my old details! The fool computer then sent me an email and a request to re-register plus a Ginormous activation code! Never had one of those on ANY forum in 10 yrs of lurking. There was nowhere to put the code when I got here tho' I know where I would like to shove! Sorry again)

I wish I could find a user manual for that mixer. OP, can you help? Also, I mentioned the suoerior pr amps on the Soundcraft? Well I dare say it also has the everso useful HPFs? Don't get those at the input of any AI I know of.

Dave.
 
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