I have a question for anyone who has a home recording studio. I just got a sound module and a mixer to add to my keyboard and computer. Oh, I also have studio monitors, which seem to be working with how they're connected. I can't figure out how to connect it all so that I can play my keyboard through the sound module and mixer and record onto my computer at the same time. Does it have anything to do with the "MIDI THRU" port? I am able to switch between playing my keyboard through the module and playing existing midi files on my computer through the module by moving where a midi cable is connected. When I connect the "MIDI OUT" on the cable from my computer to the "MIDI IN" on my module, it works for computer files, but I can't get sound from the keyboard. So, I have to unplug that "MIDI OUT" cable and plug in the one that goes from my keyboard. Do I need to get another midi cable and somehow use the "MIDI THRU" ports? I hope this makes sense! If I need to give any more info, please let me know. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
How do I hook everything together?
- Thread starter mikara
- Start date
daav
Flailing up a storm.
I know very little about midi (there is a sperate forum here for that, you might want to try there), but i think for midi thorugh the PC, you need to have your midi sounds and sequencer (whew i am really out of my league, is that really what a sequencer is for?) expecting to get signal from your controller on a certian midi channel. I think you need to tweak your computer software somehow to listen through that midi cahnnel for the midi signals from your controller.
As for the mixer, unless you have some fancy built-in midi friendly mixer, you will want to take an audio signal from the PC and send it through the mixer and from there to your monitors, or depending on your set up, from the mixer back to the PC to the monitors.
not incredibly helpful, but it is likely someone will see this lame answer and pitch in real info.
Daav
As for the mixer, unless you have some fancy built-in midi friendly mixer, you will want to take an audio signal from the PC and send it through the mixer and from there to your monitors, or depending on your set up, from the mixer back to the PC to the monitors.
not incredibly helpful, but it is likely someone will see this lame answer and pitch in real info.
Daav
daav
Flailing up a storm.
A little more from what i remember about the midid ports. The midi thru is, I think, a way to chain several midi devices together, and possibly to make it so you can control several midi devices from one controller.
Take a look at:
http://www.harmony-central.com/MIDI/Doc/tutorial.html
And then do a google serach for "Midi basics" or some such and you will likely see a ton of basic info like this.
As i mentioned in the earlier post, you should be taking hte midi out from the controller and putting it in to the midi in on the computer, then the controller should be able to activate the voices in your computer software.
Daav
Take a look at:
http://www.harmony-central.com/MIDI/Doc/tutorial.html
And then do a google serach for "Midi basics" or some such and you will likely see a ton of basic info like this.
As i mentioned in the earlier post, you should be taking hte midi out from the controller and putting it in to the midi in on the computer, then the controller should be able to activate the voices in your computer software.
Daav
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
I'm not a midi user either, but since midi is only a data signal, you are not going to need that mixer in the signal chain. You will need a control and a midi interface into your pc. The mixer is for analog signals (i.e. sound), so it will have no effect on a midi signal.
Fieva
facebook.com/fieva
If you want the sounds from your keyboard to be used as midi, the first thing you need is a sequencer such as Cubase, Nuendo, Adobe Audition, Sonar, etc. (which also does audio for a complete package). Are you using anything such as that?
Second, like Rokket said, midi is a data signal. That data signal is telling the software which instrument in your keyboard to play. So basically, you may have recorded a group of midi signals into the software you're recording on, however, should you switch instruments for the channel you recorded it on, the sound coming out would switch to that instrument as well. For example, say you recorded a piano intro as midi into the software, and it played back as piano. Then let's say that you accidentally hit the wrong button and a string was chosen for that channel (which you may or may not know, midi only has 16 instrument channels with the 10th channel usually being the drum track). What you would hear is the same pattern that you recorded, only as strings.
Recording this way may lead to problems as to getting the song you recorded in midi into an audio format because all it is are data signals and no audio attached.
What you could do to work around that and get the song recorded to a wav file exactly as you meant it to be would be to set your windows volume control (or the volume control for the sound card you are using) to record out of the line input. Then run an additional cable (leaving your midi cables hooked in as well) from the line in on the soundcard to the line input on your keyboard (if it has one). Since the midi is signal only, you would be recording what was being played as it is without loss of quality.
Once you've recorded it to a wav file, you can then add your vocals or encode the wav to an mp3 if you wish.
I hope that was enough information to get you started without being too technical. If you need anything else, feel free to PM me.
Fieva
Second, like Rokket said, midi is a data signal. That data signal is telling the software which instrument in your keyboard to play. So basically, you may have recorded a group of midi signals into the software you're recording on, however, should you switch instruments for the channel you recorded it on, the sound coming out would switch to that instrument as well. For example, say you recorded a piano intro as midi into the software, and it played back as piano. Then let's say that you accidentally hit the wrong button and a string was chosen for that channel (which you may or may not know, midi only has 16 instrument channels with the 10th channel usually being the drum track). What you would hear is the same pattern that you recorded, only as strings.
Recording this way may lead to problems as to getting the song you recorded in midi into an audio format because all it is are data signals and no audio attached.
What you could do to work around that and get the song recorded to a wav file exactly as you meant it to be would be to set your windows volume control (or the volume control for the sound card you are using) to record out of the line input. Then run an additional cable (leaving your midi cables hooked in as well) from the line in on the soundcard to the line input on your keyboard (if it has one). Since the midi is signal only, you would be recording what was being played as it is without loss of quality.
Once you've recorded it to a wav file, you can then add your vocals or encode the wav to an mp3 if you wish.
I hope that was enough information to get you started without being too technical. If you need anything else, feel free to PM me.
Fieva
Fieva,
Thanks for your input. Yes, I have sequencing software - it's Cakewalk Home Studio Version 2 XL, which I've owned for almost 2 years. I had already gotten it to work by hooking my keyboard directly to the soundcard using a midi cable, using the midi sounds from the soundcard.
I already have a pretty good understanding as to how midi works as far as channels, instruments (sound numbers), recording, etc. and have been able to record quite a bit of music using my keyboard as well as entering notation into the softwar by had. But, I just acquired some new equipment - a Korg NS5R sound module, which will greatly expand my instrument library, and a basic mixer.
I have managed to get sound from the keyboard and record in the sequencing software in midi in the following way:
• There is one midi cable running from the "midi out" on the keyboard to the "midi in" on the sound module.
• I have a USB-to-midi converter cable (usb plug on one end, midi in and out plugs on the other) attached to a USB port on the computer (this is what I used to hook my keyboard up to the computer before); on the other end of the cable, the "midi in" plug is attached to the "midi thru" port on the keyboard; the "midi out" end isn't in use at the moment
• The sound module is hooked up to the mixer with stereo L & R speaker cables.
• The mixer is connected to the studio monitors using more stereo speaker cables
I hope this makes sense. Using this setup, I can hear my playing, and it records in the software. But in order to hear the playback of my recording, I have to switch around some stuff:
• I disconnect the midi cable running from the keyboard to the sound module but unplugging the cord from the "midi in" port on the sound module
• I connect the "midi out" plug on the usb/midi cable to the "midi in" port on the sound module
• I move the "midi in" plug on the usb/midi cable to the "midi out" port on the sound module
Doing this, I'm able to play midi files on my computer again, but of course, I can't hear or record my playing! I tried hooking a stereo Y cable from the mixer to the audio out port on the computer , but it didn't do anything.
I want to be able to play, record, and playback without having to switch around cables all the time. I feel that there's a way, but I'm missing it. I'm sorry this is so long, and I hope it makes sense and that you have some more feedback for me. Thank you very much!
Thanks for your input. Yes, I have sequencing software - it's Cakewalk Home Studio Version 2 XL, which I've owned for almost 2 years. I had already gotten it to work by hooking my keyboard directly to the soundcard using a midi cable, using the midi sounds from the soundcard.
I already have a pretty good understanding as to how midi works as far as channels, instruments (sound numbers), recording, etc. and have been able to record quite a bit of music using my keyboard as well as entering notation into the softwar by had. But, I just acquired some new equipment - a Korg NS5R sound module, which will greatly expand my instrument library, and a basic mixer.
I have managed to get sound from the keyboard and record in the sequencing software in midi in the following way:
• There is one midi cable running from the "midi out" on the keyboard to the "midi in" on the sound module.
• I have a USB-to-midi converter cable (usb plug on one end, midi in and out plugs on the other) attached to a USB port on the computer (this is what I used to hook my keyboard up to the computer before); on the other end of the cable, the "midi in" plug is attached to the "midi thru" port on the keyboard; the "midi out" end isn't in use at the moment
• The sound module is hooked up to the mixer with stereo L & R speaker cables.
• The mixer is connected to the studio monitors using more stereo speaker cables
I hope this makes sense. Using this setup, I can hear my playing, and it records in the software. But in order to hear the playback of my recording, I have to switch around some stuff:
• I disconnect the midi cable running from the keyboard to the sound module but unplugging the cord from the "midi in" port on the sound module
• I connect the "midi out" plug on the usb/midi cable to the "midi in" port on the sound module
• I move the "midi in" plug on the usb/midi cable to the "midi out" port on the sound module
Doing this, I'm able to play midi files on my computer again, but of course, I can't hear or record my playing! I tried hooking a stereo Y cable from the mixer to the audio out port on the computer , but it didn't do anything.
I want to be able to play, record, and playback without having to switch around cables all the time. I feel that there's a way, but I'm missing it. I'm sorry this is so long, and I hope it makes sense and that you have some more feedback for me. Thank you very much!
Fieva
facebook.com/fieva
I tried looking for a manual of the Korg NS5R and couldn't find one. Remember what I said about setting the volume control to record off the line input? Theoretically, it still should apply for the sound module. It's midi so you won't lose any clarity in your sounds. If it has a line jack in the back, you could still hook it up to your computer in addition to what you already have hooked up and leave it as such and it should work just fine.
Edit: I got a look at the module and I'm not sure if the line option would work. I plan to use a sound module just for fun sometime but haven't yet. I'll keep looking though because there's something I may be missing. What mixer do you have?
Edit: I got a look at the module and I'm not sure if the line option would work. I plan to use a sound module just for fun sometime but haven't yet. I'll keep looking though because there's something I may be missing. What mixer do you have?
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I have a Folio Notepad mixer made by Spirit. It's over 10 years old (given to me by my brother). I've also been talking to my brother, who works at Guitar Center, over the phone about this, but I live far from him, so he is unable to come here to look at my setup in the near future. He did figure out that my problem is something to do with the cables I'm using and also that an interface box would possibly help me. We'll be discussing it further later.
I do have the manual for the sound module (it's a book!), but it doesn't have any information on using a mixer with it. It only explains how to use it with a keyboard or a computer, not a combination of both.
I probably just need to buy a book on home recording and midi so I can better educate myself. At this point, I don't know enough about recording and audio equipment to really know what I'm doing. All this is very complicated and frustrating to me. I just want to create music!
I do have the manual for the sound module (it's a book!), but it doesn't have any information on using a mixer with it. It only explains how to use it with a keyboard or a computer, not a combination of both.
I probably just need to buy a book on home recording and midi so I can better educate myself. At this point, I don't know enough about recording and audio equipment to really know what I'm doing. All this is very complicated and frustrating to me. I just want to create music!
Fieva
facebook.com/fieva
mikara said:It was a birthday gift. My dad bought it for me off ebay, and I don't know how much he paid for it. It's an older model. I know that, because the manual has a 1996 copyright date on it. It's really nice, though. It has built-in effects and over 1000 sounds available.
Man, I wish my parents had support for my music like yours do. My parents only like my songs if it has lyrics as weak as Will Smith's. I couldn't and wouldn't do party songs for a whole album (that's just not me).
Basically, you won't need that mixer unless you are going to record vocals off of it. If you do that, then I highly suggest the interface because you should be able to hook phantom mics into it.
Fieva said:
Yes, I am fortunate in that way.
They didn't really encourage me to pursue music as a career, so it's taken me awhile to make the decision to do so. They didn't discourage me, either, though. I started taking piano when I was 5, and I have been writing songs on the piano since I was about 10, but I'm not as good as I want to be yet. I'm starting college again next semester and majoring in music composition. I need to find other musicians to play with, as well, i.e. a band.I come from a musical family. My parents met in the school choir. My dad is a kareoke freak - I mean, he owns an awesome setup and also goes to his favorite spot every weekend and brings his own collection of discs with him. He sings jazz standards and classic rock and has a great voice. He also has an awesome yamaha keyboard and owns other equipment as well.
My brother is GREAT keyboard player. He owns a Roland Fantom X88 keyboard (totally awesome), and he sings and writes his own music. He also loves to kareoke and actually gets together with my dad from time-to-time to sing. I visit and sing when I can.
I guess you could say that music is my destiny. I've tried to do other more "practical" things, but none give the fulfillment that creating music gives.
Riverdog
New member
MIDI Mangle...
Hi - I've been using MIDI since about 1985 - I think I can help...
Here's a quick run down...
MIDI IN - Brings MIDI data into a device
MIDI Out - Sends MIDI data out of a device such as a keyboard
MIDI THRU - PASSES any information from the MIDI In of a device to the MIDI Thru of a device without it being TAINTED BY that device at all...
In that respect here is How I think you should hook up your system:
- MIDI OUT of the computer to the MIDI IN of the Keyboard
- MIDI OUT of the KEYBOARD to the MIDI IN OF THE COMPUTER
- MIDI THRU of the KEYBOARD to the MIDI IN of the SOUND MODULE...
When you do this - Turn the "local control" for your Keyboard OFF...
This control determines whether sound is played on the keyboard by itself using the keys - With "local OFF" the keys will be "detatched" from the sound machine inside the keyboard...
When a key is pressed, your comuter will determine where the MIDI Data goes:
- Set the Keyboard for MIDI Channels 1 - 8
- Set the Sound Module for MIDI Channels 9 -16
When you setup your software - Simply selecting a track in your sequencer will determine which unit the MIDI data goes to... and the sound from that "module" (either the keyboard or the sound module) will be played by the computer...
Set your Sequencer to record information on MIDI Channel "11"...
You should hear the sound from the sound module itself playing without the keyboard...
If you play the keyboard:
- The MIDI Data will actually go into the computer
- The computer will send the information out to the Keyboard on Channel "11"
- The Keyboard will Receive this information and since it only is setup for channels 1 - 8
- The Keyboard will PASS the information UNTOUCHED out through the THRU port to the Sound Module
- The Sound Module will receive the information from the Keyboard and play the correct sound on MIDI Channel "11"...
This should hold you until you come up with a larger MIDI interface of some sort...
I hope this helps...
Hi - I've been using MIDI since about 1985 - I think I can help...
Here's a quick run down...
MIDI IN - Brings MIDI data into a device
MIDI Out - Sends MIDI data out of a device such as a keyboard
MIDI THRU - PASSES any information from the MIDI In of a device to the MIDI Thru of a device without it being TAINTED BY that device at all...
In that respect here is How I think you should hook up your system:
- MIDI OUT of the computer to the MIDI IN of the Keyboard
- MIDI OUT of the KEYBOARD to the MIDI IN OF THE COMPUTER
- MIDI THRU of the KEYBOARD to the MIDI IN of the SOUND MODULE...
When you do this - Turn the "local control" for your Keyboard OFF...
This control determines whether sound is played on the keyboard by itself using the keys - With "local OFF" the keys will be "detatched" from the sound machine inside the keyboard...
When a key is pressed, your comuter will determine where the MIDI Data goes:
- Set the Keyboard for MIDI Channels 1 - 8
- Set the Sound Module for MIDI Channels 9 -16
When you setup your software - Simply selecting a track in your sequencer will determine which unit the MIDI data goes to... and the sound from that "module" (either the keyboard or the sound module) will be played by the computer...
Set your Sequencer to record information on MIDI Channel "11"...
You should hear the sound from the sound module itself playing without the keyboard...
If you play the keyboard:
- The MIDI Data will actually go into the computer
- The computer will send the information out to the Keyboard on Channel "11"
- The Keyboard will Receive this information and since it only is setup for channels 1 - 8
- The Keyboard will PASS the information UNTOUCHED out through the THRU port to the Sound Module
- The Sound Module will receive the information from the Keyboard and play the correct sound on MIDI Channel "11"...
This should hold you until you come up with a larger MIDI interface of some sort...
I hope this helps...
Riverdog said:
Thanks for taking the time to give me some valuable information. I already had some understanding of midi, but it's hard sometimes to relate it to various sorts of equipment. I did finally find the driver softare on Korg's website that allowed me to connect my sound module directly to the serial port on my computer. It sends and receives the midi data through that cable. I am now finally able to record my music on Cakewalk and play it back without switching around cables all the time!
I have my studio monitors connected to the mixer and the mixer connected to the sound module, and it all seems to be working fine now. I haven't tried using headphones or a microphone yet, so I'll have to see how that goes.I do need to find instrument definitions for my sound module to use with my software so I can have the right list of banks and patches. Cakewalk has some on its website, but not for this model. I fear that I may have to learn how to create my own. I want it to recognize which sound bank I want to use on each track, and even use multiple banks. Otherwise, it plays stuff just in the general midi bank unless physically change the bank in use on the sound module, which would have to be done every time I play the piece, and it doesn't allow me to use multiple banks that way. I hope I don't end up having to program it myself!
I don't use the sounds on my keyboard at all, so I don't think I need to split the channels as you suggested, do I?
Thanks again for your help, Riverdog. And Fieva too!
Fieva
facebook.com/fieva
mikara said:Thanks for taking the time to give me some valuable information. I already had some understanding of midi, but it's hard sometimes to relate it to various sorts of equipment. I did finally find the driver softare on Korg's website that allowed me to connect my sound module directly to the serial port on my computer. It sends and receives the midi data through that cable. I am now finally able to record my music on Cakewalk and play it back without switching around cables all the time!
I do need to find instrument definitions for my sound module to use with my software so I can have the right list of banks and patches. Cakewalk has some on its website, but not for this model. I fear that I may have to learn how to create my own. I want it to recognize which sound bank I want to use on each track, and even use multiple banks. Otherwise, it plays stuff just in the general midi bank unless physically change the bank in use on the sound module, which would have to be done every time I play the piece, and it doesn't allow me to use multiple banks that way. I hope I don't end up having to program it myself!
I don't use the sounds on my keyboard at all, so I don't think I need to split the channels as you suggested, do I?
Thanks again for your help, Riverdog. And Fieva too!
No problem. We're just hoping that our help is helping you get closer to where you want to be.