General DAW/Recording Questions

[husker]

I apologize for posting this here, but thought you folks might be able to help with some uber basic questions. If you can think of a more appropriate place to post, please let me know.

I am a professional IT guy, and part time piano player (I’m a much better IT guy than I’ll ever be a musician). I’m about to “retire” from a good bit of my work, and I’m looking to fill the time with two of my passions – computers/geek stuff and music. My main goal(s) are to buy a synthesizer, play some things, record them, layer them, learn about mixing, and generally “have fun.” I don’t have any interest in creating music to sell, but I am interesting in sounds and layering them.

I’ve done a ton of reading over the past few months, and always end up with far more questions than I have answers. I am looking at purchasing a keyboard workstation (Yamaha Moxf8, Roland FA-08, or Korg Kronos) to connect to my computer via USB.

I have a few basic questions:

1. As I understand, I can pull up my synthesizer, pick a sound, add a track to a Daw project, and record that sound piece into Daw. I can then pick another sound, add another track, and record that sound piece. Correct?

2. I understand there are also “virtual instruments.” As I understand, those are imported into the DAW, selected as a track input. I then reconfigure my keyboard to be a “midi controller,” so that it is sending midi data, not a sound? That is still done via USB? As I play, I then hear (through the computer) the virtual instrument?

3. A similar question – I see all these instrument packs (Komplete, Vienna Strings, etc.). Though I would not purchase anything that expensive while starting out, I do not really understand them. How do you play these with a keyboard? Are they simply files you add to Daw, and then play via midi with your keyboard? I see most rely on something called Kontakt. I'm not understanding how those sounds are recorded.

4. In your opinion Reaper too much for an absolute beginner? Technical/complexity issues don’t really bother me, unless the general consensus is that Reaper is way too much for someone who knows nothing. (I literally know nothing, as you can tell from the questions above). I’ve looked at Studio One Artist, Cubase Elements, and Cakewalk Sonar Artist as well.

5. If anyone has experience with the Yamaha Moxf8, Roland FA-08, or Korg Kronos, I would be grateful for any feedback.

6. Does anyone subscribe to Computer Music magazine? If so, is that a good resource to learn? Does anyone have any recommendations for good books for beginners? (Wading through the results at Amazon is fun, but tedious). I've actually looked at the Home Recording for Dummies book.

Very grateful for any help.

 

[Chili]

Welcome to the site. You've got a lot of good questions. Let's see how well I do answering them.

1. As I understand, I can pull up my synthesizer, pick a sound, add a track to a Daw project, and record that sound piece into Daw. I can then pick another sound, add another track, and record that sound piece. Correct?

Correct.

2. I understand there are also “virtual instruments.” As I understand, those are imported into the DAW, selected as a track input. I then reconfigure my keyboard to be a “midi controller,” so that it is sending midi data, not a sound? That is still done via USB? As I play, I then hear (through the computer) the virtual instrument?

Well, symantics, but 'loaded', not 'imported'. It can be through a USB Midi connection. But I think if you're going to have several midi keyboards, then probably a midi interface is better. Yes, you'll hear the virtual instrument, but there will be a delay knwn as Latency. It takes a small amount of time for the computer to process the sound. That part is almost negligible. The sound card or audio interface you use will determine the major part of the latency. A good interface will have no discernable latency. The sound card in your computer can have up to 500ms or more of latency. It's not only noticeable, it's annoying.

3. A similar question – I see all these instrument packs (Komplete, Vienna Strings, etc.). Though I would not purchase anything that expensive while starting out, I do not really understand them. How do you play these with a keyboard? Are they simply files you add to Daw, and then play via midi with your keyboard? I see most rely on something called Kontakt. I'm not understanding how those sounds are recorded.

Several ways. Keyboard and record the midi data. Write out the parts with a midi editor. load up or import a midi file already written out. You can record the midi data and audio from your yamaha MOX, then go in and edit the midi data to fix flubs, rewrite a section, quantize, transpose and whatever else you need. Copy n Paste, etc....

4. In your opinion Reaper too much for an absolute beginner? Technical/complexity issues don’t really bother me, unless the general consensus is that Reaper is way too much for someone who knows nothing. (I literally know nothing, as you can tell from the questions above). I’ve looked at Studio One Artist, Cubase Elements, and Cakewalk Sonar Artist as well.

I don't use Reaper, but many will say it's intuitive. Almost all DAW programs have a learning curve. It's worth the time to learn whatever program you purchase. Once you get past the technical and knowledge hurdles, you can concentrate on creativity.

5. If anyone has experience with the Yamaha Moxf8, Roland FA-08, or Korg Kronos, I would be grateful for any feedback.

Nope. sorry

6. Does anyone subscribe to Computer Music magazine? If so, is that a good resource to learn? Does anyone have any recommendations for good books for beginners? (Wading through the results at Amazon is fun, but tedious). I've actually looked at the Home Recording for Dummies book.

I have the Home Recording for Dummies and it helped a lot when I started out.

HTH

 

[ecc83]

Hi there Husker. I am now going to bore everyone rigid and say...

Buy a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface. As an IT man you will surely understand the virtue of well written drivers? Well the Ka6 has some of the best. Latency also lower than any AI anywhere close to its price point (C $200) . The interface comes with a light but nonetheless very useful copy of Cubase, perhaps THE software for MIDI work? A version of Kontakt Player and about 3G of downloadable samples.

Depending upon the keyboard/synth you get you can record the sounds it produces (line outs to line ins on the KA6) and yodel into another pair of tracks if you want vocals or a "slate" track. At the same time the KA will record the MIDI data allowing fluffs to be edited.

So, a good AI, a couple of MIDI linked keys and "softsynths" in the box and you have a LOT of fun (and quite a bit of frustration and swearing!) awaiting you!

And! download the demo of Modartt's Pianoteq. That will play on the computer as is but is a very useful MIDI recorder in its own right.

Dave.

 

[gecko zzed]

Chili gave his reponse to your questions, and now I will give mine, though I'll mostly be affirming what Chili said.

1. As I understand, I can pull up my synthesizer, pick a sound, add a track to a Daw project, and record that sound piece into Daw. I can then pick another sound, add another track, and record that sound piece. Correct?

Correct. How well this works and your corresponding satisfaction will be determined on how you get the sound from synth to computer. High on your list of priorities should be getting an Audio Interface to take the place of your computer's on-board sound. The interface allows full duplex recording, i.e. you can listen to a playback while recording new material with a minimal deal ('latency'). Ecc83 recommended a reasonable interface.

2. I understand there are also “virtual instruments.” As I understand, those are imported into the DAW, selected as a track input. I then reconfigure my keyboard to be a “midi controller,” so that it is sending midi data, not a sound? That is still done via USB? As I play, I then hear (through the computer) the virtual instrument?

Correct. Instead of playing the synth's internal sounds, you play the sounds of a software synth that (usually) sits inside your DAW. Contemporary synths often connect via USB. Older ones send midi via DIN output on the back of the synth to DIN input on an interface. If you're lucky, you will have both.

3. A similar question – I see all these instrument packs (Komplete, Vienna Strings, etc.). Though I would not purchase anything that expensive while starting out, I do not really understand them. How do you play these with a keyboard? Are they simply files you add to Daw, and then play via midi with your keyboard? I see most rely on something called Kontakt. I'm not understanding how those sounds are recorded.

Correct. These are mutli-timbral VSTIs. They can can play one or more sounds depending on which midi channel you select. Some of them use algorithms to generate sound, others use samples. You deal with them the same as you've described for virtual instruments.

4. In your opinion Reaper too much for an absolute beginner? Technical/complexity issues don’t really bother me, unless the general consensus is that Reaper is way too much for someone who knows nothing. (I literally know nothing, as you can tell from the questions above). I’ve looked at Studio One Artist, Cubase Elements, and Cakewalk Sonar Artist as well.

All DAWs have their learning curves . . . some are steeper than others. I started with Logic which I found extremely difficult at the time. I swapped to Reaper which I found very easy. However, part of that easiness was due to experience gained through Logic. Nevertheless, I would recommend Reaper. Not only would you get a lot of help here, there is very active support on the Reaper website.

 

[einstein magoo]

Super!!

Well thought out questions followed by great answers! EXACTLY what this site is about, and especially the Newbie section.

The OP and I learn and gain confidence this way. Thanks guys!

 

[husker]

Thank you all for your kinds responses, they were helpful. I imagine that I (much like other brand new folks) have the most questions surrounding the audio interface. I understand on concept how important they are, and I have actually looked at the Native Instruments interface as one possibility.

1) Is the "latency" only applicable to midi? I don't use the onboard sound card. I build my own computers (don't judge) and always buy a PCI(e) interface, usually Creative Labs. So, as I understand, an external sound interface (like the NI or the Focusrite interfaces) is ideal, but not required if you are not using Midi with VSTIs? As an additional data point, I do not play anything other than keyboards, and I CANNOT sing! So, my goal is to only record via keyboard.

2) The Roland and MoxF keyboards have both midi out and USB out connections. If I have an external audio interface, are both the outputs from the keyboard (USB and Midi) connected to the interface? Or, does the USB out go to the computer, and the Midi out go to the interface?

3) Are VSTis "standard" - eg. they will work with any standard DAW that supports that standard. Or, do some virtual instruments work only with Reaper, others only with Studio One, etc?

4) Gekko mentioned that "These are mutli-timbral VSTIs. They can can play one or more sounds depending on which midi channel you select" Can someone elaborate on that please?
Thank you for your help.

 

[Chili]

1) Is the "latency" only applicable to midi? I don't use the onboard sound card. I build my own computers (don't judge) and always buy a PCI(e) interface, usually Creative Labs. So, as I understand, an external sound interface (like the NI or the Focusrite interfaces) is ideal, but not required if you are not using Midi with VSTIs? As an additional data point, I do not play anything other than keyboards, and I CANNOT sing! So, my goal is to only record via keyboard.

Latency is how much time it takes for the computer to process the information. It can/will affect both midi and audio. depending on what processes you have on each track. As I said before, the sound card, INCLUDING your sound blaster, will cause the most latency. The audio interface will have ASIO drivers that are faster and can report the latency to the DAW to help with compensation. With midi and VSTi, it depends on the VSTi you are using. With audio, you can bypass the latency by monitoring the input sound directly. The ASIO driver will report the latency to the DAW and the DAW will compensate. As an example: if I play a VSTi through my computer sound card, it takes almost 250 msec from keystroke to sound; unbearable. If I play through my UAD Apollo interface, it takes 5 msec; unnoticeable.

2) The Roland and MoxF keyboards have both midi out and USB out connections. If I have an external audio interface, are both the outputs from the keyboard (USB and Midi) connected to the interface? Or, does the USB out go to the computer, and the Midi out go to the interface?

You would choose one connection or the other. With multiple midi keyboards, you should consider using the MIDI interface over the USB because you can daisy-chain the keyboards together. (ecc83 should be proud of me!!) If you're using only one keyboard or one midi controller, you can use the USB connection.

3) Are VSTis "standard" - eg. they will work with any standard DAW that supports that standard. Or, do some virtual instruments work only with Reaper, others only with Studio One, etc?

Most will. You might run across proprietary VSTi's, but not usually. Any 3rd party VSTi will work with any DAW.

4) Gekko mentioned that "These are mutli-timbral VSTIs. They can can play one or more sounds depending on which midi channel you select" Can someone elaborate on that please?
Thank you for your help.

I'll let him answer that. Basically, one synth can play different instruments at the same time. Piano, drums, bass. And they can be sent to different midi channels, so they show up as different tracks in the DAW. Or from the DAW, you can send different midi tracks to your keyboard and it will play them as different instruments. Usually, each instrument would be a different midi channel.

 

[gecko zzed]

Basically, one synth can play different instruments at the same time. Piano, drums, bass. And they can be sent to different midi channels, so they show up as different tracks in the DAW. Or from the DAW, you can send different midi tracks to your keyboard and it will play them as different instruments. Usually, each instrument would be a different midi channel.

That's pretty much it.

Let's see if I can elaborate more:

When you play a series of notes and send them via midi to some destination, each note will have, as one of its attributes, a midi channel. Unless you specifically assign a channel, the default is usually channel 1, and nobody cares too much about that. Virtual instruments on a computer will have either of two defaults: to receive midi data on channel 1, or to receive any midi data on any midi channel.

Using a keyboard, you can record a number of tracks, and on each track in the DAW you can insert a VSTi: maybe a piano VSTI on track 1, a synth VSTI on track 2, a flute VSTI on track 3 and a drum VSTI on track 4. Without you having done anything, each of these recorded midi tracks will have midi channel 1 as an attribute. That they have the same midi channel is of no consequence, because they are all on separate tracks.

It is possible that a particular VSTI you are using can actually do all the sounds you are seeking, i.e. it could have a piano sound, a synth sound, a flute, and a drum kit. Should that be the case, you could load this VSTI on each of the tracks, and just select the sound you want for each track.

If, when you record the midi, you set a different midi channel for each track, or, having recorded the mid, you go in and globally apply a different midi channel to the recorded notes, you can combine the midi tracks, and the notes of each will still retain their respective midi channels. This means that you can load just one instance of the VSTI. It will recognise the different midi channels possessed by the notes, and play the sound corresponding to those channels.

Within a DAW, I'm not convinced there is a huge benefit in this. Maybe there are computer resource savings by loading one instance rather than an orchestra's worth.

Mostly, I am happy to load multiple instances and my system doesn't seem to mind.

However, where there are distinct benefits is if you use hardware sound modules. For example, from time to time I still use an external Roland Sound Canvas. It is a multi-timbral module. That means I can create a number of tracks, assign each a midi channel, then send that midi out to a single module which happily separates the channels and plays the voice associated with each channel.

One other point to note. If you have two keyboards and one has USB and the other has midi, you can have both connected and operate them together. Reaper will accept midi via USB on one track, and midi via a midi interface on another. This can be handy.

 

[ecc83]

"1) Is the "latency" only applicable to midi? I don't use the onboard sound card. I build my own computers (don't judge) and always buy a PCI(e) interface, usually Creative Labs. So, as I understand, an external sound interface (like the NI or the Focusrite interfaces) is ideal, but not required if you are not using Midi with VSTIs? As an additional data point, I do not play anything other than keyboards, and I CANNOT sing! So, my goal is to only record via keyboard."

As said, latency affects everything that goes through the soundcard. The S (of a)B cards are notorious for poor latency! They are of excellent converter quality I hear these days but seem to be optimized for gaming and not overdub recording tasks. They also (AFAIK) use 1/8" stereo jacks and for a knockabout recording setup these are complete pain...For as long as they work! Get standardized on 1/4" TS jacks. The KA6 has balanced 1/4" inputs but I have never heard of any synth with same? No matter, the KA will happily accept un balanced (TS) jacks.

Being an IT man I assume you can solder? The next suggestion would require an RCA to TS breakout box.

If you really wanted a PCI card look for an M-Audio 2496. I have 3 and the latency is very good but tis an old card and the KA6 is actually faster.

Can't sing? Who can but I mentioned "slate"? This is a track where you make verbal notes, could have a count in. Digital recording has virtually zero track to track crosstalk, be better than -100dBFS for the KA.

Dave.

 

[joey2000]

Being in a similar situation as the OP (minus the "about to retire" part ) I'd like to add my .02 and ask a question or 2 as well. If I'm off base, those with far more knowledge pls correct as needed...but this might help me to learn or confirm what I think I've learned so far:

My main goal(s) are to buy a synthesizer, play some things, record them, layer them,

I think you really mean "overdub" here, not "layer." Layering is taking sounds and piling them on top of each other and playing them as one sound. Overdubbing is playing something that's recorded on a track, then playing something else (typically a diff instrument, but doesn't have to be) on another and combining them (and so on with more tracks if desired), making it sound like a group or band.

2. I understand there are also “virtual instruments.” As I understand, those are imported into the DAW, selected as a track input. I then reconfigure my keyboard to be a “midi controller,” so that it is sending midi data, not a sound? That is still done via USB? As I play, I then hear (through the computer) the virtual instrument?

3. A similar question – I see all these instrument packs (Komplete, Vienna Strings, etc.).

I'm confused about these 2 things. I thought VSLTs were "virtual instruments" - or perhaps more accurately, voices one can use through the keyboard via the DAW and you played them as a sound like you would the built-in sounds on your keyboard. ?

4. In your opinion Reaper too much for an absolute beginner?

Many people swear by it, but software AND hardware is something you'll get 1000 opinions on; it's so subjective.

I tried Reaper and didn't care for it frankly, esp as I was told it was user friendly and disagree, but quickly add that I am impatient and didn't give it much of a test run, plus it is the only one I've tried, so basically ignore what I just said lol. PS many of them have trial or stripped down versions for free, so check em out.

If anyone has experience with the Yamaha Moxf8, Roland FA-08, or Korg Kronos, I would be grateful for any feedback.

Again: so subjective. The Kronos IMO wins easy but it's also like twice as much as the others. Of the other 2 I love the Roland's interface and keypad, but many of the sounds are weaker (outside of the basic piano, organ etc). Honestly you need to find a store with both if possible and test drive them. Several times.

I've actually looked at the Home Recording for Dummies book.

I have that; it's OK. Honestly you can learn a ton for free from places like this.

I CANNOT sing! So, my goal is to only record via keyboard.

Congrats! That will make things 1000 times easier, as you don't have to worry about buying mics, sound treatments, on and on it goes. I know as I do plan to sing.

 

[husker]

Thank you all for the information, and helpful answers. When I started researching a month or so ago, I had no idea how complex and deep this subject is.

If I could beg a few more questions:

As I said, I am looking at either a Mox8 or a Roland FA-08 to do recording. I also understand that it is best to have an external interface; however, I don't think that I am completely grasping the concept.

1) If I plug headphones or monitors into the keyboard itself, and I just record a simple track to a DAW, I should have no issue plugging via USB directly into the computer, correct? In that case, I'm not necessarily using the computer's sound card, correct?
2) If I do have an external interface, what outputs of the keyboard plug into the interface? The Midi, the main L/R outputs, or both? In that scenario, do headphones or monitors plug into the keyboard, or into the interface?

Thank you all for your (thus far) patient help.

 

[ecc83]

Roland FA08

That ^ should give you some insights (you can find the Yammy review yourself!)

I had not appreciated that the FA08 IS an audio interface in its own right. Most synths are not or, if they are, they are pretty limited compared to a conventional interface. I have no idea how useful the Roland will be as an AI (but the SoS bods are usually quick to mention any shortcomings!)

So, assuming the Yamaha is also an AI (of sorts) then no, in this instance, with this class of keyboard you do not need a separate AI.

This is NOT to say that an AI would not be useful! Either in the future or even as a means of simplifying workflow (the KA6 e.g. would make monitor control easier).

To nail down another issue. If you do not go through another set of digital converters, the sound IS being processed by the PC's OBD soundcard, with all the problems that entails!

Dave.

 

[gecko zzed]

1) If I plug headphones or monitors into the keyboard itself, and I just record a simple track to a DAW, I should have no issue plugging via USB directly into the computer, correct? In that case, I'm not necessarily using the computer's sound card, correct?

Presuming you are recording midi, you can plug headphones into the keyboard, record a simple track to a DAW via USB, and you would not be using the computer's soundcard. Likewise, were you to have recorded a simple track, you can direct the midi back the other way to your keyboard, and listen to your keyboard playing the midi via headphones plugged into the keyboard.

2) If I do have an external interface, what outputs of the keyboard plug into the interface? The Midi, the main L/R outputs, or both? In that scenario, do headphones or monitors plug into the keyboard, or into the interface?

With an external interface, you plug midi and main L/R outputs into the interface. And in that scenario you plug headphones into the interface. If you are using speakers, they plug into the interface as well.

I don't think that I am completely grasping the concept

Two concepts you need to think about are: 1 the difference between midi and audio, and 2 the role of an audio interface.

1 midi is simply a list of instructions. These instructions say which note has to be played at which time and for how long (plus a variety of other parameters). There is no musical information as such. That happens when the midi acts upon a sound generator; either the generator in your keyboards, or a virtual instrument in a computer, or a separate hardware sound module. Eventually, the sound processor generates electrical current which is an analog of the sound (i.e the audio signal), and this is used to recreate the sound in speakers or headphones. When you connect the midi and the L/R output of a keyboard to an interface, you are allowing the transmission of both the midi instructions and the audio signal to a computer. You can record both or either. If you record just the midi, then you need it to drive a sound generator. If you record the audio, you capture the actual sound that your keyboard is creating.

2 An external audio interface is the means by which an audio signal is converted into a form that a computer can use, i.e. a digital signal. It replaces the on-board sound interface that computers usually have. The reason why you use an interface instead of the computer's inputs and outputs is because the former is designed specifically for recording. It is made with higher quality components, it allows you to record something while listening to what already has been recorded, and provides a range of monitoring options.

 

[husker]

Thank you all for your replies. So, to sum up, if I have an AI, it is best to plug in the line outputs of the Mox or FA08 to the inputs of the AI, as well as the Midi out of the keyboard into the Midi in of the AI. And nothing from the USB of the keyboard to the USB of the computer. Correct?

 

[husker]

Just a bump to make sure I understand correctly:

I have an AI, it is best to plug in the line outputs of the Mox or FA08 to the inputs of the AI, as well as the Midi out of the keyboard into the Midi in of the AI. And nothing from the USB of the keyboard to the USB of the computer. Correct?

 

[gecko zzed]

Just a bump to make sure I understand correctly:

I have an AI, it is best to plug in the line outputs of the Mox or FA08 to the inputs of the AI, as well as the Midi out of the keyboard into the Midi in of the AI. And nothing from the USB of the keyboard to the USB of the computer. Correct?

Plug the line outs of the keyboards into the AI to enable you to record audio.

Plug the midi from the keyboard into the AI to enable you to record midi.

There's no harm in connecting keys to computer via USB, either instead of or in addition to midi connected via AI. Or, if you want both keyboards connected fr midi, do one using midi to AI, and the other doing midi using USB to computer.

 

[husker]

Thank you. The only possible downside of the USB direct to the computer would be latency, correct?

 

[gecko zzed]

Thank you. The only possible downside of the USB direct to the computer would be latency, correct?

No, not necessarily. USB itself is not a source of latency. When dealing with midi, latency derives from how sound is generated from the midi information. If you use, say, the MS Wavetable that sits inside the PC, you can expect high latency. If you use virtual instruments within a DAW, there will be some latency.

 

[husker]

Thank you. I clearly have some more reading to do.