Garage Band Recording Setup? $500 budget

lepardman

New member
I just want to thank everyone for the help in my last thread, I love recording music and you guys have helped me tremendously.

--

I want to start recording some music with my friends. I'm very new at this, keep in mind.

We have a guitar, piano, and vocals. So potentially 3 mics needed? Idk
1 for acoustic guitar
1 for piano (not electric)
1 for vocals?

I have a windows 10 laptop to use to record with Reaper.

We are just wanting to recording music at a semi decent level, we dont need amps or anything.

Thanks!
 
This is rather more complex a problem than it first appears but there is a simple solution IF you are all good musicians and can produce a good balance "out in the room" as a performing band. For that you could use just a stereo pair* of mics set up in front of the band. For that setup you just need a matched pair of cardiod mics and an Audio Interface. But, I suspect you are thinking more of miccing up individual instruments and recording to separate tracks?

The latter would require a 4 mic input AI (no 3 way jobs AFAIK) but in practice you would probably need 2 mics on the piano and acoustic guitar is better done with 2 mics. Will the vocalist be playing either instrument? If so that complicate 'spill'.

I SHALL get a bit of stick for this but, look at USB mixers, they only render multiple tracks to a pair of stereo tracks but are a lot cheaper than a 4 mic + interface. IF you go mixer though, get a later model that runs a 24bits. Allen & Heath and Souncraft are a good start. IF you can run to a m'track AI the Tascams have ever been excellent VFM.

*Google 'Co-incident recording'

Dave.
 
This is rather more complex a problem than it first appears but there is a simple solution IF you are all good musicians and can produce a good balance "out in the room" as a performing band. For that you could use just a stereo pair* of mics set up in front of the band. For that setup you just need a matched pair of cardiod mics and an Audio Interface. But, I suspect you are thinking more of miccing up individual instruments and recording to separate tracks?

The latter would require a 4 mic input AI (no 3 way jobs AFAIK) but in practice you would probably need 2 mics on the piano and acoustic guitar is better done with 2 mics. Will the vocalist be playing either instrument? If so that complicate 'spill'.

I SHALL get a bit of stick for this but, look at USB mixers, they only render multiple tracks to a pair of stereo tracks but are a lot cheaper than a 4 mic + interface. IF you go mixer though, get a later model that runs a 24bits. Allen & Heath and Souncraft are a good start. IF you can run to a m'track AI the Tascams have ever been excellent VFM.

*Google 'Co-incident recording'

Dave.
First, thanks for helping, it's much appreciated.

I think we'd want to record the instrumental first and then put headphones on for the vocals. Or what would you recommend? Also, I'm pretty new at this so I'm only catching some of your terminology used. I have the Behringer U-Control UCA222 for my keyboard that got me started with recording, but that only has 1 line in, so I'd definitely need a new interface, any you recommend?

Like I said, I'm pretty new to this, so I'm open to your techniques or whatever you think would be easiest / work best.
 
As [MENTION=89697]ecc83[/MENTION] says, if you think you'll ever want to record all of you playing/singing at the same time, you'll need an interface with 4 mic preamps (aka pres). The only possible solution that still would leave any money for mics would be in the Behringer U-Phoria line. I have no experience with them but they are popular if for no other reason than price. I believe support is sketchy but they appear to have pretty standard features so setup should be relatively straightforward.

If you can record each track at a time, e.g., using a click to set the tempo and then mix once you've got them all recorded, you can get by with less mic pres, of course. Still, I've found that it doesn't take much to find 2 pres limiting, so you might consider just saving up a bit to give you that option.

If you plan to record everything at once, yes, 3 mics minimum. Even instrumentals I'd suggest the same thing, with a single mic on the guitar and a pair on the piano. If you want to record piano and guitar separately, you could get by with 2 mics.

You should be able to find 2 or 3 mics and an audio interface for less than $500. IMO, everyone likes the one's they've bought so take all recommendations and reviews with some grains of salt, but these are basically commodities at this time, so you can assume the pricing is relatively value-based. Differences in microphones can be significant, though, so look for reviews and recommendations that specifically match your intended uses.
 
The Behringer AIs are indeed cheap and 'seem' electrically at least, very good but there has recently been a post that suggests that their drivers are poor and latency is high. If you are into the game of track building where you need to record whilst playing back previous takes, you need reasonably low latency.

This could be a reason against a mixer. My suggestion was based on an 'all in one go' recording (as 'we' used to, nay HAD to do!) . I doubt you will do better for the money than one of the 8 input Tascams.

Dave.
 
I SHALL get a bit of stick for this but, look at USB mixers, they only render multiple tracks to a pair of stereo tracks but are a lot cheaper than a 4 mic + interface. IF you go mixer though, get a later model that runs a 24bits. Allen & Heath and Souncraft are a good start. IF you can run to a m'track AI the Tascams have ever been excellent VFM.

Yes. No.

If you stay away from the low-end it seems like a very good idea. But these are a bit pricier than a decent eight-channel interface.

I really like the Soundcrafts, and these are not expensive, but I've already seen several where the digital effects are kaput. And the same goes for the A&H bottom range. They break easily. Might as well buy a Behringer :D

For the price of the Soundcraft EFX8 (250 €), you can also get a Behringer UMC404HD (currently 105 € at Thomann.de), Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 (currently 226 €), an Audient ID14 (229 €), Tascam US4X4 (229 €) or a Steinberg UR44 (269 €).

All are better quality, will last longer and be easier to unload, once the OP grows out of them.

If you could go for a Presonus Studio Live (2.200 €), or a Behringer X32 (same price), that would be an entirely different picture.

My personal choice would be the Audient ID14. Very good sound and expansion via ADAT, if needed. Comes with a license for Eventide, Steinberg, LANDR and Producertech.
 
I bow to your experience Cyrano.

Sweetwater have the Tascam US-16 08 at $300 and I doubt you will do better at that money. That is the 'Gen 2' device. The old 8 mic Tascam interface was the only budget m'track interface in town for many years but I read little to nothing bad about it. Might want to budget for a Behringer headphone amp!

Dave.
 
Let me give a different option - I do agree about getting an interface with 4 mic preamps, though.

1) I don't think you really need to use 2 mics on an acoustic guitar for your use. it's really good to do when the acoustic guitar is the only instrument in the mix, but not when there are other instruments.
2) It's hard to mic an acoustic piano to get an even balance of tones, which is why people are suggesting 2 mics for it.

So for 1), you can't beat the Tascam 4x4 for $200 TASCAM US-4x4 USB 2.0 Audio Interface | Sweetwater
For 2) - 3 mics, I'd suggest 1 SDC (small diaphragm condensor) for the guitar and 2 LDCs (large diaphragm condensors ) for the piano, which can also be used for vocals. You really don't want to skimp on mics at this stage, so if you find yourself running short on cash, consider just one LDC to start out with, then add the 2nd one later. You may be able to find a good deal on used mics on ebay, so search there. I picked up my AKG P220 at just over half price, and it was barely used.
SDC: AKG P170 $100: AKG P170 | Sweetwater
LDC: AKG P120 $100 AKG P120 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone | Sweetwater

Of course you just hit your $500 budget, still need mic cables and stands (do you already have headphones?) And you're going to want monitors (for listening back without headphones, and for mixing.
 
Let me give a different option - I do agree about getting an interface with 4 mic preamps, though.

1) I don't think you really need to use 2 mics on an acoustic guitar for your use. it's really good to do when the acoustic guitar is the only instrument in the mix, but not when there are other instruments.
2) It's hard to mic an acoustic piano to get an even balance of tones, which is why people are suggesting 2 mics for it.

So for 1), you can't beat the Tascam 4x4 for $200 TASCAM US-4x4 USB 2.0 Audio Interface | Sweetwater
For 2) - 3 mics, I'd suggest 1 SDC (small diaphragm condensor) for the guitar and 2 LDCs (large diaphragm condensors ) for the piano, which can also be used for vocals. You really don't want to skimp on mics at this stage, so if you find yourself running short on cash, consider just one LDC to start out with, then add the 2nd one later. You may be able to find a good deal on used mics on ebay, so search there. I picked up my AKG P220 at just over half price, and it was barely used.
SDC: AKG P170 $100: AKG P170 | Sweetwater
LDC: AKG P120 $100 AKG P120 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone | Sweetwater

Of course you just hit your $500 budget, still need mic cables and stands (do you already have headphones?) And you're going to want monitors (for listening back without headphones, and for mixing.
Thanks so much for helping me out with this, I think I'm finally getting a picture of how I want it all setup.

So right now, I'm looking at getting something like this:Audio interface:
Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD Audio Interface OR TASCAM US-4x4 USB 2.0 Audio Interface ??

Mics:
2x AKG P120 - LDC
1x APG P170 - SDC

And then of course a bunch of cables and stands to hold them all.

To answer your questions, I have a bluetooth headset for listening and a nice laptop with windows 10 to use Reaper on (Or whichever program you think).

Also, wouldnt I need 3 LDC? 2 for piano and 1 for vocal?

Basically I want to cover my ass whichever way I do it. Whether we want to record the track, and record vocals later (Im worried about lag kinda) or if we want to record it all in one go, I want it get enough equipment I could do it either way.
 
I don't want to add to your confusion but, if an 'ensemble' recording is something you would like to try the Rode M5 matched pairs are the same money $200 as two P170s. I have two (not matched) P150s which seem fine, slightly earlier version of the 170. Rode do however have a very good name for their mics.
I know the 'bit at a time' technique is the way it is done these days but a good band playing together has a 'vibe' it is hard to capture any other way.

"Lag" ? Yes, this bothers me about the Behringers (wish TF some decent mag would review them!). If you CAN run to the Tascam I would do so. I am sure you will find Bluetooth to have far too much latency.

Cables, don't pay silly money. In fact for short runs (<20mtrs) you can buy really cheap XLR cables off the web. Better, mid priced wires will last longer, especially if you ever gig, but won't sound any better. Can anyone in the band solder? If you do go 4 mics or more a 50mtr drum of cables and 8 plugs will give you some savings. Not a lot but you WILL find you need all sorts as you go along (TRS, TS guitar) and there are ALWAYS repairs!

And, listen to Mike! He is DA MAN.

Dave.
 
Thanks so much for helping me out with this, I think I'm finally getting a picture of how I want it all setup.

So right now, I'm looking at getting something like this:Audio interface:
Behringer U-Phoria UMC404HD Audio Interface OR TASCAM US-4x4 USB 2.0 Audio Interface ??

Mics:
2x AKG P120 - LDC
1x APG P170 - SDC

And then of course a bunch of cables and stands to hold them all.

To answer your questions, I have a bluetooth headset for listening and a nice laptop with windows 10 to use Reaper on (Or whichever program you think).

Also, wouldnt I need 3 LDC? 2 for piano and 1 for vocal?

Basically I want to cover my ass whichever way I do it. Whether we want to record the track, and record vocals later (Im worried about lag kinda) or if we want to record it all in one go, I want it get enough equipment I could do it either way.
If you want to be able to record everything at once, or at least have that option, and you follow the suggestions that the piano will require 2 mics, you're up to 4 mics. So, yes, another LDC might be the 1st thought for recording vocals in a studio. In a group setting, I'd almost think about adding a trusty dynamic to the mix of mics you have to work with.

And, if you want to stick your toe in, you could just start with a pair of *anything* and use just one of them for the acoustic guitar and vocal, i.e., if you track each part separately. I have no idea what your room sounds like, or the quality of instruments/performers, and as that tree has been gone around a few times in other threads, those things will impact your recordings about as much as mic selection.
 
I thought you said you were going to record the instruments first, then do the vocals?

Thanks again for all your help, I appreciate it.

And I figured I want to be able to do both and pick whichever one we do better. So if we need to do ONLY instrumental and record vocal later, or if we want to do it all in one go recording.
So with the equipment I'm getting, are both options possible?

Here is what I'm thinking of ordering, what do you think?
Behringer UMC404HD OR Tascasm US-4x4 (Pros and cons?? $100 difference here)

AKG P120 - LDC vocal mic
AKG P170 - SDC acoustic guitar mic
Rode M5 matched pair - acoutic piano mic
Then stands and cables...

Also, in Reaper would I be able to set different tracks with different inputs? For example, guitar and vocals could be on different tracks and I could adjust volume post recording?
 
YEs, with either of those interfaces, you can send each mic to a separate track. Note, however, when you record multiple things at one time, there is going to be bleed - so the guitar mic will pick up some of the piano, the vocal mic could pick up the instruments, etc. That's why its good to record the vocals in a separate take after doing the instruments, it''ll give you more control during mixing.
 
YEs, with either of those interfaces, you can send each mic to a separate track. Note, however, when you record multiple things at one time, there is going to be bleed - so the guitar mic will pick up some of the piano, the vocal mic could pick up the instruments, etc. That's why its good to record the vocals in a separate take after doing the instruments, it''ll give you more control during mixing.
Awesome, thanks for all the advice.

I've been doing some reading and research and I understand a lot more now. I have my amazon cart picked out on exactly what I want and have it in my head how to make everything work.

My last questions are speakers, software and stand.

Speakers -- I'm reading that speakers or "monitors"? are important. I'll be mixing on my laptop and laptop speakers suck. What would you recommend that could plug into a laptop and be fairly cheap?

Software -- I'm using Reaper currently, but what software would you recommend for the Tascam 4x4 2.0 interface I'll be getting?

Stand -- For the majority of the mics, I'll just be using plain boom mics, but I had a question about the Rode M5 pair. Would I get 2 separate stands or would this work?
Amazon.com: K & M Microphone Bar: Musical Instruments

The matched pair M5 are going to be used to record acoustic piano.

Thanks so much!!

EDIT:
I also am thinking about getting these for recording vocals while instrumental is playing, thoughts?:
Amazon.com: Samson SR850 Semi-Open-Back Studio Reference Headphones: Samson Audio: Musical Instruments
 
"Cheap monitors" is almost a contradiction in terms to many people and I shall leave it to others to make suggestions. Some years ago, I settled on a pair of Tannoy 5A monitors that received several good reports from several sources. These are 'active' monitors i.e. they have internal power amplifiers and are fed from the interface. Whatever you get will almost certainly be actives and will be driven from the 4x4.

Yes, that stereo bar looks fine for the purpose.

Dave.
 
For tracking I think most of us would choose closed-back headphones because open backs allow enough sound to escape that it can show up in the recording. That's especially annoying when you have a click track that becomes noticeable as an otherwise perfect guitar performance is just fading out...

For mixing, well, cans are a 2nd choice if possible, but I'd rely on the crowd for this. I bounce around between some Sennheisers (2 different ones, 280HD and 5xx something), Beyer-Dynamic 770s and ancient Sony MDR-V6s. Only the Senn 5xx's are open back.
 
Mics:
2x AKG P120 - LDC
1x APG P170 - SDC

Also, wouldnt I need 3 LDC? 2 for piano and 1 for vocal?

Why would you think you NEED an LDC for vocals?

In the very serious department of Opera in the classical recording world, SDC's are very common for vocals.

Besides, the AKG P120 is an SDC in disguise. It's reported as a 20 mm electret. LDC's are 25 to 30 mm, at least. That's not so unusual. The latest incarnation of the much heralded AKG C3000 is also an electret, albeit a 25 mm one.

DPA doesn't even make a true LDC.
 
SDCs would not be my first choice for acoustic piano.
You're going to have to up your budget to include monitors (which plug into the interface, not the computer). THe lowest price monitors I'd recommend are the JBL 305's. IF you can find an older set of the LSR305's (they just released the new model), you might be able to get a pair for $200. They have rear-firing bass ports (as many of the smaller low price monitors do), so positioning in the room can be a challenge and acoustic treatment (bass traps) is the next step when using monitors in a room. You might be better to mix with headphones until you've got more money saved up.
 
Why would you think you NEED an LDC for vocals?

In the very serious department of Opera in the classical recording world, SDC's are very common for vocals.

Besides, the AKG P120 is an SDC in disguise. It's reported as a 20 mm electret. LDC's are 25 to 30 mm, at least. That's not so unusual. The latest incarnation of the much heralded AKG C3000 is also an electret, albeit a 25 mm one.

DPA doesn't even make a true LDC.
So you recommend I just get a SDC for vocals? Like the AKG p170 for vocals? Or which do you recommend thats decently cheap


SDCs would not be my first choice for acoustic piano.
You're going to have to up your budget to include monitors (which plug into the interface, not the computer). THe lowest price monitors I'd recommend are the JBL 305's. IF you can find an older set of the LSR305's (they just released the new model), you might be able to get a pair for $200. They have rear-firing bass ports (as many of the smaller low price monitors do), so positioning in the room can be a challenge and acoustic treatment (bass traps) is the next step when using monitors in a room. You might be better to mix with headphones until you've got more money saved up.
What would you recommend for recording acoustic piano?
 
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