EZ Drummer 2: worthwhile if you don't have a clue how to actually play drums?

boss281

New member
I'm a newb to the forum and a newb to home recording, so forgive my ignorance. I WILL learn over time. Anyhow my drum question is at the end, with two other questions leading up to it.

My setup: Shure SM57 directional mic on tube amp sends to OR direct line into PreSonus AudioBox iOne, and pushes music to either Sony MDR-7506 Headphones or Mackie CR3 Monitors. Dell XPS laptop running Windows 7 and Studio One Artist music production software (it came bundled with the hardware). I'm testing Guitar Rig for direct line in guitar effects.

After leaving performing in 2005 (I'm 59 now), I've decided to form my own band again, classic rock and blues. My first goal is to record a 10 song resume, with me playing rhythm, vocals and lead guitar, and put them up on BandCamp, and have interested musicians check it out and see if they want to get together. Later, my second goals is to record/produce the ENTIRE band, including drums, bass and keys, the latter three of which I assume will be digitally created from SOMETHING.

First, I tried the Digitech Trio+Looper to generate my songs. It's supposed to take a chord sequence, "learn" what you are doing, and add in bass and drums. It kind of works ok, other times it's maddeningly incorrect and off beat, so I discarded that approach and started recording against imported backing tracks. But I don't like this inflexibility, the inability to modify a drum, bass or keys sequence.

QUESTION ONE: does anyone know of any very high quality backing tracks, free or $$$, that separate the instruments for you as well as providing the mixdown?

Let's focus on Blues, the standard 12 bar, and just something generic. Simple intro coming off the V chord, two verses with singing, a verse with lead, a 3rd singing verse, another lead that outros out (either a fade, or a real blues close out). I imagine several tracks recording this, then need to import, somehow, bass and drums. Let's only focus on drums right now, because I think I can emulate bass with an effect.

QUESTION TWO: does anyone know of such an effect, using guitar to emulate bass?

So I picked up EZDrummer 2 demo software to get a handle on what it does. So far, it seems the tutorials focus on using the mouse to simulate your approach on the drums, then let the software suggest various bits and pieces for you to bring into your recording software. BUT, I haven't a clue how to use a drum kit, much less tap out a rhythm on my mouse to obtain something that's even near to acceptable.

The way my mind works, that after recording vocals, guitars, and emulated bass through the guitar, I can drum effects "builder" to pull in drums by genre, and the drum effects software will provide suggested drum loops for the various sections, suggestions for fills and transitions, and the intro and outro exercises.

QUESTION 3: Does EZDrummer do this??? I just don't see how this software can work with someone that doesn't get drum rhythms as they pertain to the kick, cymbals, hat, etc....

Thanks so much.
 
What I would recommend to any guitarist interested in home recording is, get a bass. Your fretboard knowledge will translate right over. In most cases, you can get a decent recorded bass part by plugging directly into your interface, no amp needed. Otherwise, there may be plugins that can do a decent job of simulating bass.

EZDrummer or any of the drum plugins (Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, Steven Slate, etc.) will take you as far as your programming skills permit. There will be a library of drum loops that you can use to build basic drum parts, but ultimately you'll want to alter and adapt them to your music and style. It sounds like you need to spend some time studying how drum parts are constructed. You will gain a lot of knowledge in the process. Start by listening to music you like, and noticing what the drummer is doing. Is it 4/4 or some other time signature? Straight time, or some kind of swing or shuffle? What pattern is the kick playing? The snare? Hats etc.?

You can learn a lot by listening and programming your own drum parts. Conversely, working with a real drummer will improve your programming skills too.
 
I responded to your EZD question in the other thread. Here is my response....

EZDrummer comes with midi files that you can use. In fact there are hundreds of them right there in EZDrummer. No need to know how to play the drums.

When EZD opens, go to the browser tab and choose a library. then choose a style and select a file you like. You can drag it to the songwriter section at the bottom or straight into your DAW. It really can't ge any easier than that.
 
As for the bass, I agree with Robus... buy a bass. You should be able to find a yamaha RBX-170 or similar for a great price. Don't let the price fool you, these are great basses.

When you get the bass, plug it directly into the Hi-Z input on your interface. A fair dosage of compression (I use a limiter!!) and a little EQ and you can get a nice growl out of it.
 
The way my mind works, that after recording vocals, guitars, and emulated bass through the guitar, I can drum effects "builder" to pull in drums by genre, and the drum effects software will provide suggested drum loops for the various sections, suggestions for fills and transitions, and the intro and outro exercises.

I'd go in reverse order.

Your mix is going to be largely comprised of fake sounds and performances.
There's not necessarily anything wrong with that but I'd at least track the real parts (guitar, vocal, and bass) after the rest is done so that you're performing, and reacting, to something.
 
EZD is a great little program and really powerful pound for pound. There are better and more comprehensive, but to start out with it is a great VST. The MIDI loops are not like sound loops. There are various ways to get the drums to sound pretty decent. Plus you can get more MIDI packs and the variation would be probably more than you would get with a single drummer. It is a great start and the MIDI packs are really good.

If you want to get creative, then, forget the mouse key, that is a hard way to sequence drums. Get a MIDI drum pad and some sticks and "record" the drum pattern that you hit Akai Professional LPD8 Mini Pad Controller | Sweetwater . Most DAWS will allow you to record MIDI each note/instrument (in the case of drums) and then layer each pass (go back and add say kick and cow bell). That way you don't have to get the arms and legs actually working together. Which I give drummers props for being able to do this.


This all sounds foreign, but these days and a few bucks you can set yourself up pretty good. It is not the same a with live artists, but you can get your point across musically.

Bass - get a bass. I couldn't play bass when I started out, wait I still can't play, but I can get it to work and it is soooo nice when you get that bass to work. I've become a big bass fan since I have taken up recording several years back. You will be glad you did.
 
What I would recommend to any guitarist interested in home recording is, get a bass. Your fretboard knowledge will translate right over. In most cases, you can get a decent recorded bass part by plugging directly into your interface, no amp needed. Otherwise, there may be plugins that can do a decent job of simulating bass.

EZDrummer or any of the drum plugins (Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, Steven Slate, etc.) will take you as far as your programming skills permit. There will be a library of drum loops that you can use to build basic drum parts, but ultimately you'll want to alter and adapt them to your music and style. It sounds like you need to spend some time studying how drum parts are constructed. You will gain a lot of knowledge in the process. Start by listening to music you like, and noticing what the drummer is doing. Is it 4/4 or some other time signature? Straight time, or some kind of swing or shuffle? What pattern is the kick playing? The snare? Hats etc.?

You can learn a lot by listening and programming your own drum parts. Conversely, working with a real drummer will improve your programming skills too.

Yes, as mentioned I WILL learn eventually, but I have a bit of a time constraint, which is why I'm looking to use some canned loops for now, otherwise I have to chop up internet available backing tracks. And I'm going to look at a bass tomorrow! Thanks.
 
Ok, it was NOT dragging into my DAW (Studio One) which was confusing me. I bet I have to install EZDrummer as a plugin, as I had to do that with the Guitar Rig demo. Thanks.
 
Me three. I took up bass in a serious way about four years ago, after playing guitar for decades. It has made the biggest positive change in my music ever.
 
Yeah, I just googled Studio One and found that anything less than the Pro version does not support VSTs. To me, that's kinda lame. I suggest switching to another DAW program, like Cubase, Reaper, Sonar, etc. You don't need the full-blown versions to get what you want.

Steinberg Cubase Elements 9 (download) | Sweetwater

$99! Wow. I'll need to download a demo to see if I can get a feel for it. Our old sound guy used Sonar (Cakewalk???). I've tried Reaper and found myself a bit lost--I'll have to check more of these out and see if I can find the sweet spot.
 
Me three. I took up bass in a serious way about four years ago, after playing guitar for decades. It has made the biggest positive change in my music ever.

How so? I've played guitar for 45 years, and if I pick up a bass I'm sure I'll want to do more than drum the root note over chords. How did you go about self training? I don't read music so...
 
How so? I've played guitar for 45 years, and if I pick up a bass I'm sure I'll want to do more than drum the root note over chords. How did you go about self training? I don't read music so...

Nothing wrong with playing roots and fifths, but you're not limited to that. If you want to hear my playing, I have a song up on the Mp3 Clinic right now.

Taking up bass brought about a shift in the way I hear and write songs. I think much more about groove than I did before. Also how a different bass line can change the way you hear the chords that the guitars and keyboard are playing. Try it. A few month's into your bass journey, you'll be hearing things you never heard before in songs you've known forever. And it improved my timing a lot too. Actually, it forced me to face the fact that my timing wasn't nearly good enough, which prompted me to improve.

I just bought the Hal Leonard Bass Method book and worked through it from start to finish, then worked through it again. That took a couple of months and got me somewhat up to speed in reading bass clef (the book will walk you through the reading part, really not as hard as you might think). Then I bought several other books by the same author (Ed Friedland) and worked through those. Then I discovered a site with tons and tons of transcriptions of Motown tunes, including those by James Jamerson, one of the grooviest bassists who ever walked the planet. And so on.

One thing I would recommend, if you take up bass, take the time to learn finger style. Nothing wrong with playing with a pick, but I think we should be able to do both.
 
Nothing wrong with playing roots and fifths, but you're not limited to that. If you want to hear my playing, I have a song up on the Mp3 Clinic right now.

Taking up bass brought about a shift in the way I hear and write songs. I think much more about groove than I did before. Also how a different bass line can change the way you hear the chords that the guitars and keyboard are playing. Try it. A few month's into your bass journey, you'll be hearing things you never heard before in songs you've known forever. And it improved my timing a lot too. Actually, it forced me to face the fact that my timing wasn't nearly good enough, which prompted me to improve.

I just bought the Hal Leonard Bass Method book and worked through it from start to finish, then worked through it again. That took a couple of months and got me somewhat up to speed in reading bass clef (the book will walk you through the reading part, really not as hard as you might think). Then I bought several other books by the same author (Ed Friedland) and worked through those. Then I discovered a site with tons and tons of transcriptions of Motown tunes, including those by James Jamerson, one of the grooviest bassists who ever walked the planet. And so on.

One thing I would recommend, if you take up bass, take the time to learn finger style. Nothing wrong with playing with a pick, but I think we should be able to do both.

Interesting. "hearing" the music differently and in new ways, is very important to me, as my blues playing was suffering from being boring to my ears for a while. An instructor, a good friend, sat with me a few times and got me to focus on slowing down and playing every note like it was my last. "That note there John, hang on the root, and give me some feel with just vibrato. Make it talk to me. When you're on the IV chord, have you ever thought of just lingering a second on the 6th, then back to your chord tones." It sort of pulled me away from the scales, and more into an instinctual active thought process. THIS is why recording is important to me now. Once I started experimenting a mere few weeks back after all these years, I heard myself a bit differently than before. It NEVER occurred to me to pick up another instrument. What a wonderful new journey this is becoming, all because I wanted to build a small online catalog for demo material while starting a new band. You're never too old.
 
Welcome, this is the place for it! Once you get going, post some results on the Mp3 Clinic. Reaper gets a lot of love here. There is a learning curve, but the basics are easy to pick up and you can learn the rest as you use it.
 
Cubase, sonar, reaper, they are all very similar to each other with what they do. Buttonology, hardware connections, and other user interface differences separate them. It really comes down to which one you're comfortable with. With any of them there will be a huge learning curve. You just gotta put the time in and learn how to use it. Once you get past the technical hurdles, you can concentrate on being creative. If you tried Reaper and got lost, you'll have to put a little more effort into it. Reaper is about the most friendly and intuitive of the bunch. It is so worth the effort once you learn how to use these programs.

Bass playing is ALL about playing chords..... one note at a time.

Because you mentioned playing the blues, here's a quick tutorial to get started
Walking Bass Lines With 12 Bar Blues - YouTube

I watch a lot of this guy's videos...

Walking Bass Lesson - Beginner #1 - with Scott Devine (L#61) - YouTube

Cool man :cool:
 
Just downloaded Reaper and I was up and running in 5 minutes, then knocked out a quick 24 bars of an up tempo "Born Under a Bad Sign" (found some backing track), all on my first cup of coffee. I'm checking out the demo of Guitar Rig now for effects... cool.
 
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