Drum recording interface

L

Leg3ndary

New member
I'm looking for some input on an interface for recording my drums mainly, and then the rest of the band sometimes. We're doing a rough demo with a portable 4 track now just to have something to circulate. I could see recording future full lengths with the gear I'm getting, as we've been moving more away from studios to more DIY. I'm wanting to have more control throughout the process. Drums seeming to be the biggest hurdle to get sounding good and EQ'ed with so much available for guitar recording, and limited channels required.
I have a 7 piece drum set: 3 rack toms, 2 floor, bass, snare. Casual recording could be a 4 mic set up. For a polished recording I want to mic them all individually, and then run 2 overheads for stereo, add a mic for hi-hat and one for the ride = 11 mics. Add the rest of the band for 4 more inputs if recording live = 15. It seems it bumps me to an interface and preamp. So I've been looking at these entry(?) level units and how to achieve this. I'd like to be recording at 24bit/96k.
Currently in the running are:

Presonus 1818VSL + Presonus Digimax D8
Behringer UMC 1820 + Behringer ADA 8200
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 (2nd gen) + Focusrite Octopre (not dynamic)
Mackie Onyx Blackbird + Mackie Onyx Blackbird
Roland UA-1610 - interesting unit with 12 tracks, but no ADAT, costs about the same as 2 of the above with 4 less tracks, so it would only cover the drum mics.

One thing I've been able to gather is that of those preamps only the Octopre preamp can run 8 mic channels at 96k because it has 2 ADAT outs, but then none of the other AIs have 2 ADAT in, which explains why all the other preamps only have 1 ADAT out, so they only run at 48k. Then I only end up recording everything at 48, I believe? The Mackie looks like the only option of those above that would provide 16 channels at 96k chained together. Or I would need to upgrade on the AI a few hundred to get something else with 2 ADAT connections? I've also seen some comments about using 2 interfaces with some workarounds. I'm not looking for the best gear, but I also don't want to think in 5 years I need to replace everything because it can't do what I want it to do.

DAW- can get something dependent on what works with the AI if there is a limitation, only been playing around with Reaper, so I'm not proficient in anything.
Computer- PC, going to start this on my last computer I built, Windows 7, quad core (I forget the series), 8gb ram, as more or less a dedicated machine, should be able to handle the task. Upgrading my current computer probably isn't too far out, so it would then cycle down, this one is Windows 10 64bit, Intel 4770 with 16gb ram.
Computer connection- I don't have any Firewire ports, but can add a card to my computer if I end up with that on the interface, looks like this is a lot less common than a few years ago since only the Mackie above uses it.

Thanks for reading and any input given as I begin to inform myself on the subject.
 
You don't need 96k for home recording, and you can't get it with a single 8x ADAT preamp extender like the first 3, at least. But, like I said, you don't need it. (If you run the Octopre at 96kHz you only have 4 channels, not 8.)

You also do not have to match manufacturers. I'm using an ADA8200 with my older gen Focusrite FW interface without problem, giving me 12 mic pres (at 48kHz).
 
Why is the Tascam 20-20 not on the list? The multitrack Tascams have long been the stalwart of the project studio wanting lots of tracks.

Dave (personally I would save for an RME!)
 
The Scarlett Octopre images on the website show 2 adats out with labels 48 1-8 on one, 96 5-8 on one 1-4 on the other and 192 1,2 and 3,4. Then I guess I would need an AI with 2 ADAt like the Presonus Studio 192 or that Mackie. Just seems odd they would make products on the same tier that can't take advantage of the abilities of each other and it's wasting some capability.
48 would probably work, just trying figure out if something else were achievable, started by not setting the bar for 192 anyway.

I'll take a look at the Tascam, too.
RME looks like it is definitely out of the price range
 
Leg3ndary said:
The Scarlett Octopre images on the website show 2 adats out with labels 48 1-8 on one, 96 5-8 on one 1-4 on the other and 192 1,2 and 3,4. Then I guess I would need an AI with 2 ADAt like the Presonus Studio 192 or that Mackie. Just seems odd they would make products on the same tier that can't take advantage of the abilities of each other and it's wasting some capability.
48 would probably work, just trying figure out if something else were achievable, started by not setting the bar for 192 anyway.

The drop from 8 to 4 channels for ADAT is nothing to do with hardware, there is not "waste of capability". The ADAT protocol sets a bandwidth limit (think USB 1.1 ref 2.0 ref 3.0....?) and can only handle 4 tracks at 96 kHz.

But, whenever the 44.1/48kHz V 96kHz+ debate has been enjoined here at HR and other places, the VAST majority of the opinion comes down to "96kHz give NO improvement over 44.1kHz" . Yes, there might be isolated instances or other reasons where +48k has a small advantage but these reasons are not going to apply in the project studio scenario (and the fact that RME gear is beyond your pocket, WTGR, puts you FIRMLY in the project studio scenario!) .

Had you a fabulous control room and studio and $10,000 worth of monitors you MIGHT under certain circumstances detect differences between 44 and 96 KHz, but I doubt it. ALL 96kHz gives you is a response past 22kHz and MUCH bigger files and more work for the CPU to do. There has never been a proper study to prove otherwise AFAIK. All the claims to the superiority of 96k recording are anecdotal, just a minority opinion and a small minority at that.

I'll take a look at the Tascam, too.
RME looks like it is definitely out of the price range
Click to expand...

Buggered something up there! 'Tis still early here.

Dave.
 
Well the Blackbird looks like it has some good specs and includes the 2x adats out for 8 channels at 96, and I found some used ones at a good price. I emailed Mackie and they said they don't officially support the device on W10, and have read a lot of complaints about the drivers but some people have them working on W10, or in general, so it might be a gamble.

Checked out the Tascam's 16-08 and 20-20. The 16 has 16 inputs, but only 8 preamps, so I can still only do 8 mics even with the other 8 inputs from my understanding. The 20 has 8 mic inputs, but has 2 adat ins, and is in the same ballpark cost as most of the other brand next tier units that have that ability, but with usb 3.

I'm also seeing some affordable Presonus Studio 192s
 
I dunno, sounds more like a case of wanting gear.
You have plenty of gear already adequate to do the job.
Now granted, 96KHZ is out of reach, but......the consensus is, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you had it.

Judging by your statement on you "just playing around with reaper, and not being proficient on anything", I'd be willing to bet you don't fully know how to use the gear you already have.

I'd say buy nothing except for needed mics if you want to record your band.

You have plenty of stuff to accomplish your goals. Learn how to use your DAW and your gear and get to work.

:D
 
Forget about using ADAT at 96 kHz. Sure, a few units can do it, but it limits your choice.

And the info on the net isn't reliable. The Behringer ADA8000, fi, is cited in a few places as being capable of 4 channels @ 96 kHz, but it isn't. The people who stated that, probably just heard sound coming out and concluded "it works!". It doesn't. I have a couple ADA8000's here and none of these works @ 98 kHz if you have a reliable test tool, like RME's digicheck. The 8200 might do that, I've never tested it.

ADAT is fine as 8 channel @ 48 kHz transport medium. All the rest is "experimental".

Also beware, a lot of older ADAT gear is only 16 bit. Again, you won't notice unless you test it. It shows how good 16 bit @ 48 kHz really is...
 
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