DI box and hi-z input
- Thread starter mofat
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rob aylestone
Moderator
Unless it's a very long length I'd do whatever is easiest. I've just revamped my studio wiring, and all my keyboards were connected via a behringher rack DI, feeding the keys to the mixer via XLR. The new system had the 5m jack to jack multis, just a tad too short for the new rack position, so I fed them through the patchbay in and out on jacks to another 8 channels on the mixer line ins. The result sounds exactly the same. Probably 9m of cable in total, and perfectly good at the top end - swapping the left and right to two channels on the desk, one line and one mic, and setting the gains to give identical signal - I cannot hear a difference.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Except that the DI will attenuate the keyboard on the way to the interface, so you'll have to make it up somewhere along the line which could add noise.
OTOH, the HiZ in probably has some gain built in, and a hot keyboard will cause it to clip.
Then again, a hot keyboard might cause distortion in the transformer on a cheap DI, and a really cheap DI will probably filter it along the way, too.
Is there no Line in on this interface?
I'm just trying to gather the best way to get a good signal in the interface as I've never had a real good keyboard. The starter keyboard I have only has midi, USB and headphone out. I tried to connect the headphone out to a pair of monitors and it just sounds terrible with static noise. The new keyboard I had ordered will come with stereo line level out. Do I still need a DI Box if it's line level out? My interface don't have midi input. Just a pair of combo Jacks and a hi-z (Apollo twin).
I am sure that the so-called "line level" out put on your new keyboard is actually at the traditional hi-impedance instrument-level. Plug it directly into the quarter inch inputs on your interface, if it seems a little hot, keyboards do have a volume control somewhere. I would also plug the midi out into your old keyboard and route that keyboard in by way of USB, in case you want to change sounds later. Although without knowing all the particulars it may not work as some DAWs will only support one USB device at a time. And whether or not your USB keyboard will transmit a MIDI thru signal. Considering all the great freeware instruments out there, I think if you can't route MIDI in through your interface, I would be looking for a different interface. Or picking up some kind of MIDI-to-USB box, which would also enable "re-amping" with your new keyboard, and would also make life easier for editing, as changing a bum note with an audio source is not quite as elegant as on a MIDI piano-roll n your DAW.....
garww
New member
I've not really had a problem with headphone outs and line outs on keyboards and different sound module things. I'd give it a try, first. I think the last headphone jacks I've used for recording were on the Korg Volca FM and a old Kawai K1 rack synth( one line out was bad connection). If the interface has that basic 40db gain thing, lowers levels at the track isn't a bad thing - the waveform can be increased in amplitude easy enough
May we know the make and model of the incoming keyboard please! (why, FFS do we ALWAYS have to ask?) Then there is a chance I might find a level spec for the stereo outputs?
I have spent a good 15mins looking for same from Korg, M-A, NI and Roland. Line out levels seem to come under the Official Secrets Act! I am going to guess then at -10dBV or about 300mV. Certainly any kbd that is USB buss powered is not likely to deliver more than that.
Whilst I agree that all recording should be made at the average -18dBFS level this can give a monitoring problem if the gain in that system cannot be increased so as to hear WTF you are doing! So, whilst a line input is technically the right way to go, maybe a high Z input will have more gain and be more practical?
Dave.
I have spent a good 15mins looking for same from Korg, M-A, NI and Roland. Line out levels seem to come under the Official Secrets Act! I am going to guess then at -10dBV or about 300mV. Certainly any kbd that is USB buss powered is not likely to deliver more than that.
Whilst I agree that all recording should be made at the average -18dBFS level this can give a monitoring problem if the gain in that system cannot be increased so as to hear WTF you are doing! So, whilst a line input is technically the right way to go, maybe a high Z input will have more gain and be more practical?
Dave.
If you are wondering why they would mislabel them as line outputs, it is because the average user needs to understand that even as a traditional headphone with quarter inch plugs will fit in the jack, it won't work. To their mind your average user is a monkey, best not confuse them with operating levels......
Yeah, got all that. There really is no such thing as a "high Z" OUTPUT, or should not be. There is no earthly reason these days (and has not been since the transistor arrived) for an output to have a source Z of 1k* and easily a tenth of that.
There should also be no confusion over the term "line output". Such sources that are at -10dBV (guitar pedals e.g.) can certainly be described as line outs. Pro levels are of course at the OP level of +4dBu and I am pretty sure I have seen such outputs on SOME, top line keyboards?
*Some older kit would distort if such an OP was loaded with say 600 Ohms and there was even a risk of damage to the OP device. Many cassette decks had 4k7 output pads but I would still not call those "high Z" outputs.
N.B. Headphone outs rarely work well as line sources unless you split them into L&R or resistively sum them to mono.
None of this stuff is rocket science, just Ohm's Law which is no more complex a piece of maths than MPG!
Dave.
garww
New member
The four outs on my ultranova seem likely to be line because it's supposed to be a 2x4 usb interface ? I usually put everything into the line in of my mixers and don't have any levels looking low. I think the casio wxp1 is from 2012, and its output knob is usually midway. The toy Yamaha PSS-370 has a RCA out and it's close to the late '80 Kawai k1 for level
garww
New member
I'm sure Instrument level is real enough. I just don't have anything(keyboards) that specifies that. The late '80s Kawai would of been suitable for lounge entertainment and the manual says plug it in to the Kawai KM60 keyboard amp, public address system, or audio amplifier .
I've got instrument switches on some hardware recorders and on some interfaces, but I've never used the switch for keyboards. A lot of the switches just say guitar, or the Combo jacks say auto sensing for MIC, guitar, line ? Plenty of my inputs just say plug in your instruments;
I've got instrument switches on some hardware recorders and on some interfaces, but I've never used the switch for keyboards. A lot of the switches just say guitar, or the Combo jacks say auto sensing for MIC, guitar, line ? Plenty of my inputs just say plug in your instruments;
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The keyboard coming is the Nord Piano 3. I spent my tax refund on this sucker. I hope this is pro audio level stuff and that would give me a good signal. I went ahead and bought a radial pro d2 box. The radial JDI stereo box is too expensive 300 bucks! This is my first DI box so don't know if it's all that or just wasted money.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
I mean, you completely don't need it for this particular task, but...
1) While they are often over used, or used "just in case" when they're not really necessary, when you really do need a good passive DI, it is about the only thing that will do. It's always good to have a couple around the studio for when it really is needed, and if you ever intend to take the show out to clubs, you will definitely want it in your gig bag, and...
B) Radial really is the industry standard. While I'm the type who's just fine with a $20 Pyle brand stereo DI, the Radials are in fact much better quality with much better transformers. It really probably is your best bet for the most transparent DI at anywhere near a reasonable price available, and as long as you keep track of it (they will have a tendency to "walk away" from stages and studios alike if you're not careful), you'll probably pass it on in your estate.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Well, with DI's it's assumed you'll get plenty of gain at the mic pre, and they may have to accommodate +4 input. Some attenuation works in a DI's favor. High impedance inputs are made primarily for instrument level so they have more gain built in.
Farview
Well-known member
A passive DI takes a line level signal and makes it a mic level signal. It relies on the mic preamp to get the gain.
A hi-z input is designed for an instrument level signal