Decent mixer at a decent price.

pellouch

New member
I am just starting to get into home recording because my two kids play instruments. My daughter plays guitar (acoustic, electric acoustic and electric). My son plays drums. My daughter also sings (takes voice lessons).

So, occasionally their friends come over for a "jam session" and there may be 3-4 other friends. They want to record some song they perform together. I'd like to record this in a decent way. That is, I'd like to get a mixer that has 6-8 channel inputs (btw - what is the difference between a channel and a track? I see one mixer advertising 8 tracks, but there are only two inputs! how does that work??).

Anyway, my requirements are to have a mixer for under $200 that has 6-8 inputs (I'll figure out which organ to sell to get 6-8 different decent microphones) and a USB input to my computer so I can play with the audio.

Thanks for your help.

-phil

p.s. I have been looking at this one from Yamaha (I am a little bit partial to Yamaha just because I've had great success with them when buying my kids instruments).

Yamaha MG82CX 8 Input Stereo Mixer with Digital Effects
 
Before buying a mixer, read THIS stick thread.

I suspect what you really want is an audio interface with 6-8 inputs, but you need lots of other stuff to record your kids. Mics, stands, headphones, monitors, cables, DAW (recording software), then some time and patience learning how to use everything. By the time you get really competent in recording and mixing, your kids will probably be away in college, unfortunately. ;)
 
p.s. I have been looking at this one from Yamaha (I am a little bit partial to Yamaha just because I've had great success with them when buying my kids instruments).

Yamaha MG82CX 8 Input Stereo Mixer with Digital Effects

That particular mixer does not have a USB port. For your price range, yamaha offers the (discontinued?) MW10 or MW12 mixers, and they both have USB ports. However, as mjbphotos has stated, you may want to skip a mixer and go with a USB interface, because its an all-in-one solution for recording audio to your PC.

According to your needs you're going to want to focus on:

1) Good preamps
-Your mic(s) will depend on the preamps of the interface (or mixer) to keep the signal not only clear, but warm as well. Additonally, bad or subpar preamps will make your recordings sound metallic, hard, and plain.

2) 4+ Outs
Most mixers and interfaces in the sub $250 range will only be 2in 2out, which means you'll only be able to record from 2 tracks at a time into your DAW. To get a better idea of what I mean check out a few of these mixers interfaces: (This can be confusing,)

Allen & heath Zed10 (This is a 2 out mixer, even though it has 4 xlr/line ins.) < - - excellent mixer, but only 2 channel, and expensive.
Akai EIE Pro (This is a 4 out interface, and it has 4 xlr combo (xlr + line) ins. < - - expensive, preamps are said to be mediocre.
Scarlett 2i4 (This has only 2 XLR combos, and it can record 4 tracks at once.) < - - arguably best in class.
Yamaha MW10 (This has 4 xlr/line ins, but only records 1 track.) < - - only one track recording :(
Alesis MultiMix 8 USB (4 xlr/line ins, and I believe this can record 10 tracks at a time.) < - - Average preamps, probably your best bet if you want a USB mixer.
Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 (4 combo XLR, 8 tracks sent to the computer.) < - - Big brother to the 2i4, expensive.


3) and decent condenser mics for each application you wish to record.
 
Forget the mixers. Read the sticky that was suggested by MJB. Get an interface.

Also, condenser mics are not always the ideal way to go. If you don't have a treated, acoustically "sound" room, a good dynamic mic might actually be better for you.
 
I think I can see your reasoning here Phil?...

Give each kid/instrument a mic and record that many channels* (aka tracks) to PC and than sort the balance out later? Trouble is it won't work..Well not in 2013/14!

As MJB said you would need a shedload of kit and vast amounts of time to rig and strike it, the kids will get bored rigid and bugger off to play Pokeman (or whatever kids do TDs!) . So, unless you have a nice big room that you can dedicate to an "always rigged" studio you are doomed. But, turn the problem on its head?

One thing the budding musicians will HAVE to learn is how to create there own internal sound balance. An unamplified singer fronting a drum kit simply won't be heard unless the drummer uses brushes and a modicum of discipline. Assemble the "band" and stand back and listen. Can you hear the parts ok? If not you, or a teacher say, needs to have a word.

A simple 2 input AI and a pair of small diaphragm condenser mics on an XY stereo bar will capture a good representation of a WELL balance band. This could be expanded to a 2 mic input AI with 2 more line inputs and a small mixer to feed them (a Yammy if you like!) and that mixer used to get a better drum kit mix.
Google "Co-Incident stereo recording".

"Multitrack" recording is a relatively recent development. For most of recording's history two tracks was all we had and for a good part of that only one!

*One mic is useless on a drumkit, you might just get away with 3.
Dave.
 
Wow, lots of great input from everybody here. Thanks Everyone! I think I'm sold on getting an AI instead of a mixer - since my computer will be my ultimate destination. I guess another thing I'd like to do is videotape the entire thing. So, the output of AI needs to feed a video recorder. Not quite sure why there needs to be so many outputs - is that so each kid playing an instrument can have a set of headphones to listen?
 
Not quite sure why there needs to be so many outputs
It's because you're now using your computer software (AKA DAW) as a "mixer". Without separate outputs, you won't be able to mix anything. Having all separate outputs means you'll have all separate tracks so that you can mix properly. You need to send those separate outpputs into your computer so that they're all on their own track. That's what mixing is all about.
 
Right. This is why you need separate out puts. Or else,you'll only be sending one track to your computer. How can you mix anything if it's all on one track?
 
I think you have a couple of options on how to approach this project. If you want to just capture a session with the kids playing, then you probably don't need the headphones. Mic them up and record them as they are playing. Probably need 8 inputs for typical rock band. It might come out okay, but maybe not. If you are looking for studio quality (which you can get, no problem), then you probably want to record each instrument/voice separately. In this case, you only need two or three headphones.

For video, record them and get footage, but don't plan to use the audio from the camera. Use the final version of the song after it's recorded and sounding the way you want. Then go back and have them lip sync, goof around, etc. Put it all together in a video editor like Sony Vegas.
 
If you record each instrument/voice separately, aren't you going to have a nightmare trying to sync the things together. Or to address this, do you have Person 1 record first, then Person 2-4, listens to person 1 while recording him/herself.
 
So I guess ideally, I'd have two mics for each person, one for vocals and one for instrument. Because some people may play/sing at a different volume than everyone else. And probably sing and play at different volumes. Once I get this in the computer, i can adjust the levels of each persons voice/instrument to create the perfect output, right? :-)
 
Here is a quick pictures of what I'm trying to accomplish. Feedback and opinions solicited.

View attachment 82653

Your above setup is doable.

That said, for under $400, I would recommend the following interfaces: (in no particular order)

Scarlett 18i8
M-Audio M-Track Quad
Akai EIE (or pro version)
TASCAM US-600
PreSonus AudioBox 44VSL

These are all 4x4 mixers. (4 in / 4 out)

So I guess ideally, I'd have two mics for each person, one for vocals and one for instrument. Because some people may play/sing at a different volume than everyone else. And probably sing and play at different volumes. Once I get this in the computer, i can adjust the levels of each persons voice/instrument to create the perfect output, right? :-)

For this you might want to look at the: Alesis MultiMix 16 USB mixer
 
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If all you really want to do is capture the jams, you could start out small and simple with just a portable or handheld digital recorder like the Zoom H2n. It will record stereo and a form of surround. USB to connect to PC or Mac and it comes with Wavelab LE so you can edit the session into songs and render to MP3 or WAV for the kids to to listen to. Then if you do catch the recording bug you can start acquiring gear, build you studio, etc.

This is how I started. I'm still very new to multi-track, but I got the Zoom to record my "band"'s jams because we don't get together all that often and we couldn't remember what we played... Now when a particular jam starts turning into a song, I put the "live" recording from the Zoom into my DAW and start building an arrangement for the "studio" version. Then the guys come over and play/sing individual tracks.

Have fun with what ever you decide to do!

J
 
If you record each instrument/voice separately, aren't you going to have a nightmare trying to sync the things together. Or to address this, do you have Person 1 record first, then Person 2-4, listens to person 1 while recording him/herself.

You would record into a DAW program such as Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, etc. Most interfaces on the market will have some "Lite" form of one of these programs package with the interface. It's enough to get you started and to get a good mix. And enough to show you what you can produce at home. Using one of these programs would allow you to 'sync' up the different tracks/recording/instruments/vocals/et al. Mind you, there's a learning curve and it can be steep.

go to Rami's site if you want to see a good example of what can be accomplished with a modest set up.

If you are looking to just record a practice session, then you can use JMac's suggestion about the Zoom.
 
XLR inputs vs. 1/4 inch balanced line inputs...

I am looking at some of these audio interfaces that advertise 2 XLR inputs and 2 1/4 inch balanced line inputs. Does that mean I can have 4 microphone inputs - just with different connector types?
 
Nope, at least not out of the box.

Line level is a much higher voltage that the level a microphone puts out.
Keyboards, synths, effects racks usually put out line level.
Standalone preamps and mixers usually have line outs too.

You'd plug mics into inputs 1+2, then you'd put preamps of some kind between mics 3+4 and line inputs 3+4.
 
I am looking at some of these audio interfaces that advertise 2 XLR inputs and 2 1/4 inch balanced line inputs. Does that mean I can have 4 microphone inputs - just with different connector types?

No, you need XLR inputs and mic pre amps behind them. You also need phantom power these days.



You could get such an interface and use it with a small mixer(or pre amp) to get 4 mics ins but it would be more practical and cost effective to buy an AI with 4 or 6 mic inputs to start with.

Dave.
 
Note that many/most interfaces that advertise 2 mic preamps/inputs and 2 line inputs only have two simultaneous track outputs, too.
 
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