copyright of original song

Pinky - look at a practical (recent) court example: Spirit/estate of Randy California vs Led Zeppelin. Both pieces of music were copyrighted. Spirit's song was first. The court decided (or would have it was not settled out of court? I'm not even sure if this is still resolved) based on 'similarities' and the fact that the Spirit song (copyright) came first.
If Spirit/California had not copyrighted the song, Led Zep could have said they wrote it first and demoed it, which California heard and copied, and Zep would have won in court.

Or worse, Zep sues them for recording the song year(s?) before.
 
It's not means of extracting money. It's a means of securing your intellectual property.

Here's more stuff about copyright:
Copyright Basics for Musicians - Music Copyright Law

If the property is already yours there's no need to secure it, which I guess is where I've landed on this subject (and compared the copyright dept to an insurance/warranty company).

I think we're all on the same page now, but disagree about the degree of importance or finer minutia about whether the copyright is the ONLY proof that can ever be used in any shape/form in such cases.

BTW, very good link ;)
 
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But there is still the point that you can't contest someone else's use of your stuff without your stuff being registered. If they register it first, you will have a very hard time proving it was yours to begin with. Registering with the copyright office is the gold standard for proving what belongs to whom when.
 
But there is still the point that you can't contest someone else's use of your stuff without your stuff being registered. If they register it first, you will have a very hard time proving it was yours to begin with. Registering with the copyright office is the gold standard for proving what belongs to whom when.

Yes, [if entirely true] that's the part of the law that I think is actually illegal/unconstitutional (hence my reference earlier to hoping this happens to me so I can challenge it). I know they came up with this to reduce fraudulent suits, but in the process threw out the baby with the bathwater. IMO calling it 'flawed' would be a compliment.

It's not the registration that's the problem, the problem is with it being used as a prerequisite to exercising your rights to retrieve stolen property. That's where it crosses the line. Following the prior analogy, what's being said is that I can't even call the cops to file a report on my stolen CD because I didn't file a piece of paper with a comprehensive list of all my personal possessions with the local police department first.
 
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Ah, so the thread isn't really about understanding why it's necessary to register a copyright, it's more about railing against the government overstepping it's authority in a mob-style protection scheme, charging poor musicians to "protect" their ownership rights.

Got it.
 
Ah, so the thread isn't really about understanding why it's necessary to register a copyright, it's more about railing against the government overstepping it's authority in a mob-style protection scheme, charging poor musicians to "protect" their ownership rights.

Got it.

No, this has NOTHING to do with politics.

[I'm a lefty anyway, you're barking up (peeing on?) the wrong tree]

Sorry if the end result of this discussion isn't what you want/hoped for when you entered into it, no need to get personal or snarky.
 
My apologies, I wasn't trying to be snarky. I was trying to sum up the post before it in a (mildly) amusing way. I forgot the smiley...
 
I guess it's just the way the law was written. No poor man's copyright. Seems logical to have one clearinghouse of registrations. One trusted, non-bias, source to go to to determine who registered the song first. If you registered your song before farview heard it, made his own version and registered it, then you would be able to prove your case in court.

If everyone wanted to contest IP infringement and they all brought sealed envelopes to a court room, judges would have to decide if the contents, envelope, etc were not faked. With a government clearinghouse as the sole source for registrations, it simplifies the process of establishing infringement.

The registration fee isn't that much money; $35. You can do your whole catalog for the one fee. That's what I do. Once a year, I'll register whatever songs I wrote during that year. Pretty simple. Actually, last time, I registered the songs with the last CD (on sale now at CD Baby!! :D)
 
Yes, [if entirely true] that's the part of the law that I think is actually illegal/unconstitutional (hence my reference earlier to hoping this happens to me so I can challenge it). I know they came up with this to reduce fraudulent suits, but in the process threw out the baby with the bathwater. IMO calling it 'flawed' would be a compliment.

I am at a loss as to how copyright laws can be regarded as unconstitutional. BUt I guess I'll have to accept that you view them differently.

It's not the registration that's the problem, the problem is with it being used as a prerequisite to exercising your rights to retrieve stolen property. That's where it crosses the line. Following the prior analogy, what's being said is that I can't even call the cops to file a report on my stolen CD because I didn't file a piece of paper with a comprehensive list of all my personal possessions with the local police department first.

I can't see how else you can claim it is your property.

There was a car analogy earlier . . . for physical goods like cars, houses, cameras and so on there is a paper trail (receipts, titles, contracts, etc) that establishes your ownership. If someone knocks off you car, you can take them to court and say, "here's my title."

Copyright is the IP equivalent. Without it there is nothing to prevent someone else saying that you stole their music . . . except your word.

Poor Man's Copyright establishes nothing. The process itself can be compromised, and even if it not, a sealed envelope doesn't establish you as the creator of the work.
 
I went to the ISRC website and I see that they now charge an $80.00 fee for the code. When I got mine 7 years or so ago, this was not the case, but I'm not surprised that they now charge for it (administrative fees, etc.). This code is yours for life, and if you are like a lot of people here, I'm assuming (assumed) that you are recording your own stuff, from beginning to end of the process (including mastering), and are then sending it off to CD Baby or something like that. I realize it is not a copy right; the codes insure that you get royalty payments for your tunes should you happen to start selling them. Get paid for your work.
 
You cannot have a change to the law to require registration because that removes the existing protection everyone has that they may not be aware of. Registration would also never work. C Am F G is a chord progression hundreds of years old. Loads more that form the basis of more well know songs. How can you register that? Somebody still has to decide if your song is based on that or is different, so it solves nothing. At some point a court has to decide. Guitar songs often use the C Am F G progression but other songs start it on a different starting chord. Is this the same or different? Again, registration doesn't solve it at all. The law in loads of countries means copyright exists when created. No registration, no money! All that ever happens is proving to a judges satisfaction that you did it first. If they introduced registration, then there would still be seventy years of unregistered works that would still be protected. Pointless and stupid.
 
I went to the ISRC website and I see that they now charge an $80.00 fee for the code. When I got mine 7 years or so ago, this was not the case, but I'm not surprised that they now charge for it (administrative fees, etc.). This code is yours for life, and if you are like a lot of people here, I'm assuming (assumed) that you are recording your own stuff, from beginning to end of the process (including mastering), and are then sending it off to CD Baby or something like that. I realize it is not a copy right; the codes insure that you get royalty payments for your tunes should you happen to start selling them. Get paid for your work.

You can get the codes for free if you sell your tunes through CD Baby.
 
I went to the ISRC website and I see that they now charge an $80.00 fee for the code. When I got mine 7 years or so ago, this was not the case, but I'm not surprised that they now charge for it (administrative fees, etc.). This code is yours for life, and if you are like a lot of people here, I'm assuming (assumed) that you are recording your own stuff, from beginning to end of the process (including mastering), and are then sending it off to CD Baby or something like that. I realize it is not a copy right; the codes insure that you get royalty payments for your tunes should you happen to start selling them. Get paid for your work.

Not sure ISRC is needed for royalty payments. My tunes registered with BMI (released on CD and download on Kunaki, bandcamp and Amazon) got me royalties based on my listing the dates/locations the songs were played on the BMI site. Is the ISRC needed for radio/internet plays/streams?
 
I can't tell you how many times one guy in a band copyrights all the songs and the rest of the band wants to beat him senseless because he put everything in his name.

A guarantee than no one is trolling the MP3 area of this or any other forum to find songs to steal.

I am.:rolleyes:
 
actually the government copyright office is not new nor a money grab... it is and has been the true legal copyrights that stand... the mail it to yourself " poor man's" copyright is useful in that it is a safeguard only as a front runner prior to waiting on the actual copyright to go through... even if you do it digitally online you still have the waiting period to receive the final "copyright" paper for the song...( do not take a chance on not doing this with the government ) i usually do a group of songs as a "collective work" so my fee is 30 for a group of songs like 10 or so mail them to myself then do the actual "legal" copyright... once it is written form it is yours ...your hard drive will tell you when it was originally created... however ... do it right and don't take chances...that's how good songs get stolen, and it happens more than you know
 
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