Confused, in need of help?

Benreturns

New member
A very basic question I know...

I use portastudio's, all in one multitracks.

Why do some 'home recordists' use a mixing desk? Even if its just them by themselves? Whats the point of recording one track at a time through the desk?? And, where does the recording actually end up?? Where is it stored??
AND, how do they mix the overall song after they've recorded the 16 tracks or whatever? Do they use the mixeing desk?? Does every channel have to be connected? Im under the impression that mixing desks cant store induvidual tracks... othawise they'd be multitradck recorders.

Can anyone clear this up?? As you can proboly tell im a newbie
 
The mixer is the same as the one on your portastudio but of higher quality and with more options. Each channel on the recorder is hooked up to a channel on the mixer and 2track recorder is hooked up to the main outs to record the final mixdown.

If you want to use a lot of external hardware effects than a mixer is the easiest way to utilize them.
 
Hey Ben,

(Maybe you already know this stuff.. If so please disregard)


See, there are Channels AND there are Tracks..

A Channel is a path the sound/signal takes.

A Track is where the sound/signal is stored for playback.


A "*Mixer" is a unit able to accept several signals from such things as Mic's, Guitars and Keyboards and give them each it's own path.

While each signal is going down its path you can adjust the Volume, EQ, Pan (Left or Right posistion) of each signal...

So basically a 16 CHANNEL mixer has the abilty to accept 16 seperate signals OR give 16 instruments their own paths (Same thing.)

Mixers DO NOT store the sounds, Mixers (Basically) ROUTE the sounds down paths so that you can adjust and blend them together (Mix them), before sending them to the recorder.

If you were using a Mixer with a Portastudio all of the signals would go into the mixer first, get blended, then sent out to the Portastudio to be recorded.

NOTE: There are different types of mixers and ways mixers are used... Some mixers do many other "Side features" that are also useful and making the mixer "Flexible" (See more towards the bottom.)

Here are SOME examples of how/why a mixer might be used with a Portastudio while recording alone OR in a whole band recording situation:

ALONE: You want to have 2 (Or more) Mics picking up the sound of your guitar amp, then blend (Mix) and send them out to one Portastudio track.

BAND: You find yourself recording an orchestra which takes several mics... what do you do? You plug all of the mics into a mixer, where you can adjust them a little, then once blended the sounds go from the mixer out to your Portastudio which records them.

ALONE: Using a keyboard (Or Keyboards).


BAND OR ALONE: You are a drummer and each drum has a mic on it, but you just want 1 drum track on your Portastudio, so you run all the mics through the mixer and maybe adjust some to sound as if they are coming from the left or some from the right (This is PAN) AND/OR if like the bass drum is too loud, you can just turn that mics CHANNEL down (Or up) using the sliding volume lever called a FADER.

BAND: Everyone in the band is all set up and has their sound going through the mixer, but in walks three (Or more!) HOT back up singers that will sound sooooo cool going "Ooo" and "Ahh" in a song... What do you do? First you tell the guitar player his car is getting towed so he runs out the door, then YOU get their phone numbers... After that you plug in three (Or more) mics (One for each of them) into three (or more.. as many as you need) empty mixer channels and adjust the volume so it sounds good blended with the rest of the band.

It's always good to have more CHANNELS on a mixer than Tracks on the recorder AND/OR More Channels than instuments.

A mixer may have several alternative paths in and out for different reasons (For different tasks you might encounter.)

MOST Mixers have a stereo Left and Right out, but in some (if not all cases) you wouldn't connect the mixer to a multitrack machine like that (unless you wanted to)...

(This is PART of what confused the heck out of me for a long time!)
Usually each Track will be given it's own Channel..
That is to say the signal (Guitar, Mic, Keyboard ect.) goes
down the path of mixers Channel #1 and out of the mixer to Track #1 of a Multitrack machine.
This is done when a mixer has a "Direct Out" for each channel... So the sound goes into channel 1 and down the path (Where you adjust it), then it goes DIRECTLY OUT of the mixer into Track 1 of a multitrack machine to be recorded... Channel #2 goes to Track #2, Channel #3 goes to Track #3 and so on.

You with me so far???

OK..

(Now this was where I was sooooooo lost, so since you are new lets make sure you aren't lost too!)

Now lets use the first example I gave above about you wanting to have two mics on your guitar amp, BUT you want the two blended and sent to just one Track on your Portastudio Ok?
Now if channel #1 goes directly out to Track #1, then how do you use two mics???
Ok, mixers have a feature called a BUSS.
(This term screwed with my head till someone here set me straight.)

The mixer MIGHT be a 16 Channel- 4 Buss configuration.
(The amount of Channels and number of Busses varys from mixer to mixer depending on what you buy.)

SO...
If we think of a single mixer Channel as a house, we could say the Input (Where you'd plug a mic into) is the front door and the Direct Out is the back door (Where the signal leaves and goes to a single Track on the multitrack machine.)

With that in mind, the Buss can be thought of as windows!

So if the front door already has a signal walking through it, but you need a second signal coming into the house at the same time (Because remember you want to have two mics on your guitar amp?) then you just press a button and it opens a window (The Buss) and lets the second signal come in that way... Then they both go out the back door together and get recorded.... If you need 3 mics you use the front door (Channel Input) and open two windows (Engage two Busses) and all three will go out the back door together and get recorded.

Makes sense? (If not, do yourself a HUGE favor and find out what I mean because although basic, it opens up the world as far as mixers go.)

OK, so IF you understand that, then lets think about a recorder that ISN'T a Portastudio (BTW I love my Porta Two!)

Lets say it's an 8 track recorder...
(I'll keep this short)

You would send all of your instruments and mics signals to the recorder (One at a time if you want)... FOR EXAMPLE: The Guitars are on Track 1 and 2, The bass is on 3, drums are on 4 and 5, vocals are on 6 and 7 and the keyboard is on 8..., THEN you would hook up it up (Sometimes just flip a switch) so that all of the recorded signals come back into the mixer when you hit
'Play' on the multitrack recorder!!

Why on earth do want them back from the recorder after you spent so much time getting them onto it??!!!

Well it's what is called "Mixdown"...

So when you hit 'Play' on the multitrack machine each recorded signal comes back into the mixer (Down it's own path where you can once again adjust it and put EQ on each seperate track and adjust it from left or right ect ect), THEN once all of the 8 tracks are Blended (Mixed), they NOW ALL go out of the mixer via a Left and a Right Stereo output (Just like on your Portastudio) to a Cassette deck or a CD burner or a Compter or Mini Disk or to a Two track deck and basically its finished.
(OR this is where the "Mastering" process takes place.)

Hope this helps.
:)



*You might see a "Mixer" refered to by a few different names such as "Mixing Board" Mixing Console" "Mixing Desk" "Board" "Console" "Desk".
They are the same.
 
Last edited:
Very, very good post, BillyFurnett.......

It was very thoughtful of you to take the time to make sure one of our newer members fully understand the mixing borad process.

spin

PS: I think that I will copy your response and post it into the forum I moderatate (Hip-Hop Forum).
 
Hey Spin Thanks man.

I went YEARS without knowing how a mixer worked and a really patient member here (Ghost Of FM) really took the time to get it into my head, so now if I can at least TRY to give that knowlege back to some degree, then it's a small effort to make compared to what I've learned here you know?

The Buss concept made me dizzy and I THINK it might be confusing for alot of folks... If I had only had this site years ago...Wow!


Be Cool
-Billy-
 
BTW- I've been looking for a second opinion on Ghost's suggestion that I dress up like David Carradine from televison's "Kung Fu" everytime I record... I GUESS it HAS helped, but I don't know...



Oh Well.. Don't want to mess up a good thing you know?
-GRASSHOPPER-
:)
 
Welcome to the BBS PinkFloyd.

Thanks for the thanks on the post... Beauty of it is that everytime someone gathers some info they can help the next person in behind them you know?

Happy Recording
-Billy-
:)
 
BAND OR ALONE: You are a drummer and each drum has a mic on it, but you just want 1 DRUM TRACK on your Portastudio, so you run all the mics through the mixer and maybe adjust some to sound as if they are coming from the left or some from the right (This is PAN) AND/OR if like the bass drum is too loud, you can just turn that mics CHANNEL down (Or up) using the sliding volume lever called a FADER.


Sorry to pick. Overall a wonderful post. I just wanted to clarify this because it really confused me for awhile. You can't have stereo (something left/something right) with one track. You need to be able to pan something left and something right during mixdown. Thus, you need at least two tracks.
 
Oh the sting of guilt in giving misinformation!

LOL- I knew THAT was gonna come back and get me and I'm glad you caught it Dethska.. (I was more concerned with putting something about Panning in than I was with thinking about what I was saying... BUSTED!)

GOOD CALL
:)
-Billy-
 
Last edited:
No problem Billy. Like I said, the only reason I caught it was that I spent a good amount of time thinking that I could record stereo onto one track. I had to sit down and really think about it, before I realized that didn't make any sense.

I really like the doors, windows buss analogy. It made me realize I can do the same thing with my board. I just never utilized that function. I plan on experimenting with this weekend. Props to you.:D
 
Hey Billy!

That was an outstanding post, i loved the house analogy!

Ive always been confused you see, as to why one man songwriters/producers would need a mixing desk seeing as it couldnt store information and its very hard to play drums guitar at the same time!

So instead of the multitrack thing i have going at the moment, if i ever wanted to upgrade i could go -

Mics/keyboard ----> 16 track recorder
http://www.tascam.com/product_info.php?pid=302&nav=hd_multitrack

Then from that recorder to this:
http://www.studiospares.com/productdetails.asp?pid=53511&cid=2457&ctitle=MIXERS - ANALOGUE&p=1&gid=4

Then from that to this....
http://www.studiospares.com/productdetails.asp?pid=52787&cid=2444&ctitle=CD RECORDERS&p=1&gid=4


If you get me... how can i get every track of that 24 track recorder to goto a channel on a mixing desk? Surely there aren't enough outputs on the recorder? Or have i got the type of recorder wrong? Whats a better example?
Also, i take it add outboard effects etc... at the mixing stage when mixing down onto a CD?

If you can suffer my questions you'l do a newbie a great favour! And thanks again for that 1st class reply earlier - and all of you!
 
Re: Hey Billy!

Benreturns said:
.......Surely there aren't enough outputs on the recorder?........

Yes. There are enough inputs and outputs (24INS/OUTS).

However, I think that you might want to go with a different setup.

What is your budget???

spin
 
Well at the moment, its just an enquiry to view my options. My budget would be a couple of thousand say. I would be putting it all together very slowly however, not splashing on it all at once.

I dont want to go by way of PC/Mac i like to have the hard equipment at my fingertips and not be staring too much at a screen all day. I like the idea of a 24 track unit (not portastudio) being fed into a large mixer. I would like to produce 24-bit sounds.

What are my options?

AS a side note, can anyone tell me how proffessional studios work? I often see huge mixing desks in them, but not always computers....
 
(Thanks for jumping in Spinster... I saw Ben's post, but it was like 6:30 A.M. and I was just about crossed eyed from being up all night, so I didn't respond.)

Ok Ben,

As Spinster has pointed out, IT does appear that the Tascam 2424 has 24 INPUTS AND 24 OUTPUTS, so with a 24 channel Board (That usually) with Direct Outs it would go as explained before... Mixer Channel #1 to Recorder Track#1, Mixer Channel #2 to Recorder Track #2 and so on.

There would be a few different ways the signal might be sent back from the Recorder to the Mixer for Monitoring and Mixdown, but those routes would be dependant upon the Mixers features.

(It's important that I tell you I have no background in digital gear at all and in fact not much background in analog gear either-LOL, but more importantly is that I have no experience with the gear you posted links to...., SO (Of course) you'll want to discuss ideas about what you'd eventually like to record with someone that actually HAS those pieces of gear OR experience with gear very much like it. Before you invest any money IMO it's best to learn as much as possible about all types of gear and it's uses as well as how it gets hooked up and why... This will help you look for the features you'll need to record as you intend to.

A good way to do more research is to SEE (Detailed Pics)and read about gear uses and features here, there and everywhere...
(And I think you're doing a great job so far... Heck, if you understand all that I've explained, then you know as much as I do (I'm an eternal newbie in my opinion.)...., so here are some links to further help you.

This first one has manuals you can download which are actually kind of "Easy" AND "Fun" to read through with pics that will help you SEE connections and routes.

http://mackie.com/products/1642vlzpro/index.html


This one has a 'Learning Section' with diagrams and explainations that might help you out as well.

http://mackie.com/products/1642vlzpro/index.html


(If you don't already know...)
Make an attempt to understand how an INSERT works...
It ISN'T that hard to understand, but it seems to often be misunderstood. (Compressors are another mystery as well, but all in good time.)

ALSO
Begin to make sense out of the various types of jacks and plugs used on Mixers and Gear.

While you're researching that kind of stuff it MIGHT also be cool to write a post here where YOU TELL US how a mixer works...
(I did the same thing in various other posts and it helped ALOT because it simply forced me to put out in the open what I DIDN'T understand.) Mixers and the whole connection scheme seem IMO to depend on each other... That is to say when you understand one part (Or don't) then it's easier and somewhat intuitive to understand the next step in the connections, features and use.
It's kind of like stepping stones across a stream.. When you can tell us which stones you see (Features and use you understand), then you are also telling which you don't see (Or understand) and everyone can fill in your next step across the stream AND/OR
you will just find yourself saying "Oh Wait!, If I'm gonna step from here to over there, then it's obvious that THIS MUST BE the next missing stone!" And you will laugh as a bigger picture of the whole process begins to come into focus.


Keep up the good work man.
:)
 
Billy, if you had been my teacher at school I can garuentee I wouldn't have been a dropout!

At the moment im downloading all pictures of front and rear panels of various recorder/mixing pictures i can find and comparing them. I take it the signal is recorded pretty dry into the recorder, so what you have is a basic track. Then when all your tracks are recorded simply, you send them through into the mixer where the fun of effects/ techniques begins, and finally when your done out into a cd burner/cassette deck.

I take it a mixer is a corridor, with an entrance and end. As the sound travels downt this tunnel it is subjected to various things such as adding reverb/delay/FX/volume changes etc..(not compression im led to understand - this is recorded onto each track unless you want to compress the whole mix at mixdown) and the signal emerges at the end ready to process to CD/tape. This happens with every track you record until they are all blended together as a whole 'product'. You plug monitors into the outputs of the MIXER to see how its all doing. You plug external mastering processors into line-out jacks when you want to make a hard copy.

Is there no way to control volume (mix) on the Tascam MX-24? You just record it all in flat? Looking at the front pannel .pdf I cant see a way to control the volume of each induvidual track.
 
Back
Top