condensor mics

[joshuarosschris]

I heard a vibe that condensor microphones last longer than dynamic mics. But in my opinion the clipping from starting them up crashes them quicker(as I have a Audio Technica 4040 I get concerned as a beginner into recording) Is this correct? If it is would it be beneficial to put a potentiometer in the line to slowly increase the phantom power to the mic? And second question does someone suggest a cheap mic that is a good all around mic as a condensor? AT2020? or something cheaper so I'm not using my AT4040 for everything. what about the cheapest thing on amazon? Is that ok as its just for playing around with? if anyone can throw me links to the cheapest thing that does ok it would be very much appreciated.

 

[garww]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._960_SCM_960_Studio_Condenser_Microphone.html

 

[Steenamaroo]

I heard a vibe that condensor microphones last longer than dynamic mics. But in my opinion the clipping from starting them up crashes them quicker

I'm not sure that's the case. Results will vary with different equipment but my meters peak when engaging phantom power with no microphone connected.
I can't say for sure that the spike has no negative effects on the microphone, all the same. I just don't know.

If it is would it be beneficial to put a potentiometer in the line to slowly increase the phantom power to the mic?

A potentiometer wouldn't be the way to go but capacitors would.
Lots of desks and preamps have slow-rise, or slow-ramp, phantom power. In fact, those would be good google search terms.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a slow-ramp go-between device on the market.

 

[gecko zzed]

I have been recording with condensers for over twenty years. I think I have a dozen assorted condensers floating around. Not one has failed because of a phantom power spike.

Anecdotes don't necessarily count as evidence, but I expect your fears of clipping on powering up are groundless.

 

[rob aylestone]

If condensers are groundless, they don't work. Sorry.

The pop from connecting a condenser with phantom turned on doesn't hurt the mic, because all that happens is the electronics powers up, the same way every electronic device does when turned on. The pop that silly people get through the PA could but usually doesn't cause any damage that I have ever discovered.


If you buy a VERY expensive condenser they do not come with any warning about ramping up phantom power. If they needed a warning, there would be one. Let's be honest, if you could kill a mic plugging it in, they wouldn't sell many would they?
DO NOT buy mics from Amazon unless you know what you want and it's cheapest. Many of their suppliers are simply box shifters. Plenty of proper dealers if you know what you want - Studiospares and Thomann are good places to start if you're in the UK - other than that I can't help.

I have a 2020 and don't like the sound that much, but they're OK.

There are so many mics that have specific roles that recommending one for you is difficult - what do you want it to do?

Dynamic mics have no electronics so are more reliable than condensers. Some components in them age. Pre-polarised diaphragms as you get in electrets can gradually lose their charge becoming less sensitive and maybe a bit skewed in frequency response and noise. Capacitors dry out, and any plug in contacts can tarnish. Old condensers haven't failed on me, but I have had a couple that clearly didn't like damp storage.

 

[ecc83]

People seem a bit obsessed with power "spikes"? In the case of phantom power especially, not going to happen.

The 48V needs to be very low in ripple and noise (although the differential nature of the system helps a lot). This means it is invariably derived from a voltage regulator and therefore it will never rise above the set value. If the supply was not regulated it would have to be very well filtered by at least two RC sections and so the capacitors would ensure a very slow build up. And, as if all THAT was not enough there will be at least 6k8 in series with the voltage and a big cap in the mic further slowing the rise.

As for microphone longevity generally? I would aver they eventually die due to gob injected fluid corrosion of the diaphragm or attached coil? Thus, capacitor or dynamic, makes no diff. "Vintage" mics will have failing caps but modern stuff should be good for fifty years or so.

Dave.

 

[ecc83]

BTW If you want a modestly priced (sub 200 euros) pretty neutral LDC with pad and HPF I can recommend the Sontronics STC-2.

Dave.

 

[Chili]

If condensers are groundless, they don't work. Sorry.

I'm pretty sure he said "your fears... are groundless", not the mics.

As Steeno said, look for the interfaces with slow ramp for phantom power. While the spikes don't hurt the mic, it could cause damage to speakers and ears if you're switching phantom power on with the amps up.

BTW: phantom power applies 48v to both sides of the condensor, so there is no voltage difference causing the mic the spike.

 

[Bobbsy]

I have 10+ small diaphragm condensers that are at least 26 years old and have been used in a mix of studio and live applications. Apart from a few chips on the paint, they're all working perfectly. I've never had a problem from turning on the phantom once the mics are set up.

My LDCs are all somewhat newer but a few of them are approaching ten years old, again no issues.

Edited to Add: As for condensers lasting longer than dynamic mics, I can't give you an answer. My oldest SM58s are probably a bit older than the SDCs I've mentioned, though a couple need new grills when I get around to it.

 

[Ryan O'Rourke]

People seem a bit obsessed with power "spikes"? In the case of phantom power especially, not going to happen.

The 48V needs to be very low in ripple and noise (although the differential nature of the system helps a lot). This means it is invariably derived from a voltage regulator and therefore it will never rise above the set value. If the supply was not regulated it would have to be very well filtered by at least two RC sections and so the capacitors would ensure a very slow build up. And, as if all THAT was not enough there will be at least 6k8 in series with the voltage and a big cap in the mic further slowing the rise.

As for microphone longevity generally? I would aver they eventually die due to gob injected fluid corrosion of the diaphragm or attached coil? Thus, capacitor or dynamic, makes no diff. "Vintage" mics will have failing caps but modern stuff should be good for fifty years or so.

Dave.

keep in mind also that the diaphragms of a condenser mic always carry a static charge and therefore attract particles.. couple that with singers spitting onto them and you could eventually get a layer of grime on the diaphragm that is thicker than the foil and that will seriously dampen the high frequency response you want out of a condenser. the mics can be built rugged but the diaphragms must remain as light as possible. to combat this one should always:

- record vocals with a pop shield
- always store mic in a case when not in use
- cover mic if left out overnight
- never blow on the diaphragm as you may bottom it out on the back-plate and stick it there. (usually if this occurs you can unplug the mic and plug it back in to solve the problem)
- never remove the capsule or try to clean the diaphragm in any way

i'm not sure about phantom power harming a hot mic that is unplugged suddenly, though that bit about the regulator makes sense i'm not sure about the innards of every device. However, manufacturers do usually issue a warning and i'd rather be safe than sorry so i always disconnect the power from the preamp before unplugging or plugging them in.

Happy Recording!

 

[ecc83]

"BTW: phantom power applies 48v to both sides of the condensor, so there is no voltage difference causing the mic the spike. "

Err? Not quite Mr C, there MUST be a voltage difference twixt back plate and diaphragm or there is no charge to be modulated by the sound pressure. I do however agree that there is no "spike". To clear up a couple of other points...

The DC is applied single ended, the two internal feed Rs are tie together. The AC OUTPUT is applied to pins 2 and 3 but not always as a differential drive. Rarely comes from a transformer these days and is often of the "impedance" balanced form.

The more expensive capacitor mics use a DC-DC converter to derive a higher than 48V polarizing voltage and such converters will themselves have a fairly slow ramp up, likely more than a second.

The electrostatic charge on a phantom polarised mic is puny, 48V at best and rarely more than 100V for a converter type. Even valve HT polarization is unlikely to be more than 200V and so "spit suck" will be negligible, far, far below the projectile velocity.

Then, BBC OB vans (I have read, Bobs? ) had(have?) unswitched spook juice on all mic inputs and mics of all types, including the glorious Coles ribbons were hot plugged and dissed with abandon and impunity. The BBC were the engineering pinnacle of good audio practice, they would not have destroyed microphones willy-nilly.

Dave.

 

[Bobbsy]

Then, BBC OB vans (I have read, Bobs? ) had(have?) unswitched spook juice on all mic inputs and mics of all types, including the glorious Coles ribbons were hot plugged and dissed with abandon and impunity. The BBC were the engineering pinnacle of good audio practice, they would not have destroyed microphones willy-nilly.

Dave.

I never worked for the BBC other than as a contractor but in my limited experience this doesn't sound correct. The OB vans have an interface panel on the outside for audio and cameras and, as far as I know, the Phantom is switched on and off at the mixer just like any fixed studio or live job.

Of course, if the operators leave it on out of convenience...

I must admit that in the past, I have accidentally fed Phantom to Coles 414 lip mics and they lived to tell the story...or at least pick up the commentary.