Computerless recording setup - ideas ?

T

toddn

New member
Hi.

I'm looking to set up a computerless home recording situation.

I'm a professional musician, who records at various studios, but want a home recording setup for my own research and study, also to possibly release, though that is somewhat secondary.

I need the sound to be good enough so that I'll want to listen back,
but do want a smooth work flow to get into the music.

I run a Linux based computer, and love it, but don't want to be recording in front of it.
I would love to find a computerless option for recording, and even basic playback, and then can do editing on the computer.

I recently purchased for extremely cheap an Akai DPS24. The workflow, and sound, was great. But, it quickly fell back into the problems that made it so cheap for me to buy.

The computerless options seem pretty limited... I'm considering buying a more reliable DPS24 as I loved it, but I know more problems are possible, and maybe even probable.
Setting up a more component based system seems intriguing. I was researching an Alesis HD24. Very reasonably priced now. Then buy a mixer, etc. Seems exporting tracks from the Alesis to a computer for editing isn't too difficult, though perhaps slow. The benefit of this approach too could mean slowly upgrading parts, i.e. start out with a decent basic mixer, then over time get a better one, etc.

Anyway, sorry if I'm repeating a very similar post, but if anyone has ideas that might fit, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
My first thought is it's going to be tough to find software for Linux to do your editing in. Not knocking Linux, I love it myself, but ALL professional audio software that I personally (emphasis on personally) have heard of are for either Windows or OSX.

I'm not very well versed in the "porta-studio" equipment either, but that's what it sounds like your best bet is for recording without using your computer. It looks like that's what your DPS24 is, but it's hard for me to tell. It looks like an older portastudio, so I'm having trouble finding much info on it, but I'm sure someone else that works with that type of equipment more often can tell you if it's a decent piece of gear or not.

Only thing I'd discourage you from getting would be a mixer. You don't need a console/mixer to do audio really, and a lot of times, the cheaper ones aren't even worth the extra hassle. I'd just record directly to the portastudio and then once you've got all of your tracks recorded, export them to a DAW and do all your editing and mixing there, with no mixer in the picture.
 
I'll start by saying that I'd use the computer--or maybe a new one set up just for audio.

However, a possible solution you might look at is the Allen and Heath ICE 16 with a suitable mixer (including direct outs and enough line inputs for the return feeds).

I stress that I have no personal experience with this unit but I've heard good things about it and have been curious to try one since I first saw it on the A&H site.
 
If you like the DPS24, you should have a look at and consider the Roland VS2480. A great bit of kit like the DPS but with the option to connect keyboard, mouse & monitor giving you a more hands on approach to the standalone DAW. Editing is easier with the monitor and mouse. No need for a computer.

Worth a though :thumbs up:
 
AKAI DPS24

^Looks to be quite a beast and I am sure if you could find one in good order it would be the dog's but it is 1.5 decades old technology and computer recording has moved on fantastically since 2000. The thing is in essence just a rather low end mixer and a dedicated processor! I see it only has 4 mic inputs with phantom power so you would have to use a mixer or a spook juice box if you wanted to run a gaggle of "proper" microphones.

I too know nothing of Linux but there is recording software around for it. I know a guy on Sound on sound forum (Folderol) who runs Linux and an NI KA6 interface so he must be using something!

But for me the bottom line is "why are you against a PC for music recording?" if you intend to edit on one ANYWAY!??

Dave.
 
The DPS is a powerful piece of kit, as is the VS2480 I mentioned. (The VS has 8 mic pres, each with phantom power) They're not to be underestimated and were very expensive in their day. The big boys of the Digital Studio world.

Maybe toddn is the kind of person who prefers a "hands on" mixer/faders feel than mixing in the box. A lot of people do. I love using my VS2480 but I also use my PC. The VS also acts as a desk/controller for Reaper, for me.

RE: Recording with Linux. Ardour is a Daw that can be used. It's pretty good too. https://ardour.org/ - Audio Interface would be the biggest issue and some research would be advised.
 
Pefectly possible and perhaps an intriguing notion, but do you remember how recording used to be each time that technology moved a big step forward? With each technological advance, came new techniques that improved recordings - maybe quality but often musical improvements too, plus of course time - either your own free time, or paid for time.

My dad complained about the BBC introducing tape - and he hated the loss if being able to drop a needle into a record groove he'd marked with a yellow china graph pencil. He used to have a row of these and became adept at playing out sections of music, effects and dialogue by nudging a lever dropping a needle. All the faffing around "dubbing' from source to source, and slicing it up with razor blades was not for him.

I didn't have the luxury of 4 separate tracks in the seventies, so it was sound on sound, in mono - and then 4 track on Tascam, then 8 track, then I skipped 16 track, recording to a ADAT system. During this time I was also going 8 track to cassette. You get the drift.

By not including a computer, you will still record decent quality music - that's the easy bit - BUT - you don't have access to all the great features computers give you. Things I use every day. This morning, two new replacement tracks arrived via email from the pianist - and these shave been inserted into the current project, and chopped up to replace the dodgy two bars in the chorus too? I don't care if the computer is a Mac, PC, or Linux version - I could not have done what I did this morning on a non computer system. Equally, my accounts package crashed, and I'll spend this afternoon rebuilding it from a backup, so I hate computers too. They are tools - so why would I wish to use a less 'good' tool?
 
Tracktion has a Linux version.

I think the DP32 series is really pretty good dollar for dollar, I opted not to use it because all of that functionality crammed into that small footprint and I could get more for less with a cheap computer and a Tascam 1800. But, for those who insist, the DP32 looks like it is really a nice machine.
 
Mr Clean said:
The DPS is a powerful piece of kit, as is the VS2480 I mentioned. (The VS has 8 mic pres, each with phantom power) They're not to be underestimated and were very expensive in their day. The big boys of the Digital Studio world.

Maybe toddn is the kind of person who prefers a "hands on" mixer/faders feel than mixing in the box. A lot of people do. I love using my VS2480 but I also use my PC. The VS also acts as a desk/controller for Reaper, for me.

RE: Recording with Linux. Ardour is a Daw that can be used. It's pretty good too. https://ardour.org/ - Audio Interface would be the biggest issue and some research would be advised.
Click to expand...

Cheers Mr C, didn't mean any denigration to the multitracker, never seen one.
If an AI for Linux is needed I do know that the KA6 works very well.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Cheers Mr C, didn't mean any denigration to the multitracker, never seen one.
Click to expand...

I didn't take it that way. I thought it was just worth pointing out that although these machines are old, they can still kick some ass. You can get expansion cards for more inputs and fx and everything really. The problem being as they age, parts become rarer. The DPS24 is known for HDD's dieing in them though. One of the reasons I went with the Roland instead. That and when connected to a monitor with a keyboard and mouse it's not really that different to using PC. Just a different DAW Gui to learn.

As a side note, when I got my VS2480, it had a broken play button on the transport. One email to Roland and they sent me a replacement button and tact switch the next day for gratis. Roland has great customer service.

:thumbs up:
 
The Yamaha AW series might be worth investigating to see if any of those machines would suit your needs.
 
cda said:
The Yamaha AW series might be worth investigating to see if any of those machines would suit your needs.
Click to expand...

I just gave my AW4416 away. Best standalone ever made, and it's obsolete.

Use a computer, or tell us why it's so important that you don't....
 
Thanks all for the responses and info.

The reason I'd like to get away from the computer for the recording step, is for the workflow as a musiciain,
which to me is the priority. It is a feeling that many musicians I know share, and even many people dealing soley from the
recording side. A different part of the brain perhaps, or just a different feeling.

Thus, editing at the computer, if need be, would be fine, as it's generally done at a different step from recording.

As far as the Akai DPS24. It is a real beast. Very decent and open sounding pres, 24 inputs, and all types of great stuff.
But, it has zero support now from Akai, and parts can sometimes be literally impossible to come by. So, if your machine goes, and
you and the guys on the forum can't figure out a fix, you might be done.
I talked to a repair man today, and he said on the other hand that Roland still has good support for their standalone recorders,
the vs-2480DVD being the best I think, and the comparable machine to the DPS24. But, I have heard it's Sound isn't as good as
the DPS24, so that would be a letdown... But, it still might be a good option.
He said the Yamaha AW series also should still get good support and parts from Yamaha.

Also, will look into the Allen and Heath ICE 16 idea, could be a good fit.

Will research more and post back. Thanks.
 
No, sorry Todd, I just don't get this!
You are willing to contemplate the A&H recorder (get the Tascam wired one and learn to solder leads!) which will then need a rack of mic pres but not an AI and a computer which amounts to the same thing!

Say you bought the Tascam 1800, 8 mic amps and 4 more line ins (I think)? Plug that into a PC, does NOT have to be Deep Blue, and set up for 12 mono inputs. Now all you do is hit the tit to start and stop recording, you could even buy a scabby MIDI controller like the Korg nanoKONTROL2 and have remote transport buttons!

Yes, you can do a fantastic amount of complex stuff with a PC, AI and DAW, but yer don't HAF T! You can use the system just as a multi track tape machine with near infinite run time and impeccable sonic performance.

Dave.
 
The VS2480 has a 24 bit fixed point mix buss. It is insanely easy to overload the mix buss on that thing. The sound quality is also kind of weak, as the mic preamps are cheap and from the turn of the century. It makes a fine sketch pad, bit is a step up from cassette, but the sound quality combined with the lack of useful features makes it a non-starter in my opinion.
 
rob aylestone said:
so I hate computers too. They are tools - so why would I wish to use a less 'good' tool?
Click to expand...
Who can tell ?
But the OP, despite everything, is pretty clear about wanting a computerless set up. He doesn't denigrate them.
Thus, editing at the computer, if need be, would be fine
Click to expand...
He just doesn't want one !

Mr Clean said:
I thought it was just worth pointing out that although these machines are old, they can still kick some ass.
Click to expand...
I agree. I use the DPS12i and for me, it's the perfect halfway house between the cassette portastudio and the computer, sort of combining the best of both worlds.

toddn said:
The reason I'd like to get away from the computer for the recording step, is for the workflow as a musician, which to me is the priority. It is a feeling that many musicians I know share, and even many people dealing solely from the recording side. A different part of the brain perhaps, or just a different feeling.
Click to expand...
That's really vague and doesn't tell us anything.
Workflow is interesting. I find that it is less about the medium and more about the person. I went from 4 track to 8 track portastudio then to digital standalone and my workflow didn't alter because of the medium. Wherever alterations occurred, it was a little to do with the machine but more to do with the way I choose to record in my situation. Whatever I was recording on, my workflow would be pretty much the same because it's how I do things.
 
I have 4 computer free options at my disposal:
An ancient 4 track reel machine
a 4 track cassette recorder
a Roland Disklab &
a Zoom R16.
I also use Reaper in a computer.
The cassette recorder is great but limiting.
The Disklab not so great and limiting in many ways.
The Zoom is great AND tracks can be shifted to a computer if needs be AND can be used as the interface to a computer based recording program, (even going as far as working as a control surface for a DAW).
Reaper is my XP computer is incredible.
 
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I have a Boss BR800 Multitrack recorder. It's billed as an eight track but is really a four mono plus two stereo track playback. It's capable of up to four inputs with phantom power on one xlr. I really like it and it does what I want. It's capable of acting as a control surface for a DAW but I've not tried it. Although it records in a proprietory format, exporting as WAV files to a computer is straightforward.

My computer runs Linux (Linux Mint) and I have Reaper installed. It runs fine under Wine but personally I cannot really get on with it so I usually mix on the Boss and then export to the computer and finish off in Audacity but my needs are pretty simple and that works for me.

There are a number of DAWs now available in Linux though I've only really tried Rosegarden which started out as a midi sequencer which is what I really wanted it for. I had problems with playback in my previous version of Linux but otherwise seemed promising. I've recently updated to the latest version of Linux Mint but I've not yet reinstalled Rosegarden. You probably need to check the Linux Musicians forum to find what's available on Linux. Ardour seems to get mentioned as the "Rolls Royce" for Linux with a reputation for a steep learning curve.

I also have a Tascam DP006 which is a basic MTR - like a digital portastudio but that's partly why I bought it. I wanted something a more portable than the Boss and I find I use it a lot for basic acoustic recordings. It has pretty decent built in condenser mics. There is a larger version; the 8 track DP008 which has genuine eight tracks but only two inputs but these do include xlr inputs unlike the DP006 which just has two 1/4" jacks. Export to a computer is a bit more hassle than with the Boss but is not difficult and works well.

Both only export at 16 bit/44.1 kHz but I find that perfectly adequate for my purposes.
 
I have an alesis adat HD24. records up to 24 tracks at a time and has been bulletproof for a decade.

click the link in my sig and play the chicago medley for a sample. it was recorded live in a club off a yamaha M32 board. I later dumped the tracks to computer for mixing and processing.
 
I just picked up a Tascam DP-32 (32 track portastudio) to allow me to do remote recordings outside of my studio but also have the ability to handle entire projects if I so desired. The plan is to import the Tascam tracks into my PC (Sonar X3 Producer) for editing and integrate MIDI tracks and VST instruments.

I also utilize the Roland R-26 handheld 6 track recorder for spontaneous recordings of our church band and me at the piano outside of my studio. Same work flow as above and the internal mics are perfect for ambient sound. ;)
 
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