I hear people saying 85db is the proper leval to have when mixing but it seems extremely loud to me. I play a pink noise file and it's almost overwhelming, is it because I'm in a small room (like 15x15) or is it because my spl meter needs calibration? It's actually just an app..
85db seems REALLY loud
- Thread starter 4140
- Start date
Been a while since I visited this. According to my really old 
Rat Shack meter (with music not noise), 85 seems rather high. Bringing it down, I'd say I hang out and can get most of what I need for a mix in the 70-75 range.
Sometimes I run way lower- on purpose and as far as I can for the situation, and of course trips way up.
Rat Shack meter (with music not noise), 85 seems rather high. Bringing it down, I'd say I hang out and can get most of what I need for a mix in the 70-75 range.Sometimes I run way lower- on purpose and as far as I can for the situation, and of course trips way up.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
A couple of things:
First, as Farview says, 85dB of pink noise is going to sound a lot louder than the music you're mixing. Pink noise would be giving you a continuous 85dB while, on music, (unless you're a mercenary in the loudness war) you'll only get occasional peaks at 85dB with most of it being lower.
Second, and related, you have to know whether that 85dB number is A, B or C weighted. C Weighting is relatively flat but A and B make attempts to simulate the way human hearing works and roll off a lot of frequencies, therefore sounding quieter. (And if you ever encounter D weighting, plug your ears...it has a god-awful 10dB peak around 8k which can almost be painful! If you're interested, Wiki has a good article on SPL weightings.
Finally, I have to say that I don't worry too much about mixing at 85dB anyway. I tend to go with what's comfortable for the style of thing I'm working on.
First, as Farview says, 85dB of pink noise is going to sound a lot louder than the music you're mixing. Pink noise would be giving you a continuous 85dB while, on music, (unless you're a mercenary in the loudness war) you'll only get occasional peaks at 85dB with most of it being lower.
Second, and related, you have to know whether that 85dB number is A, B or C weighted. C Weighting is relatively flat but A and B make attempts to simulate the way human hearing works and roll off a lot of frequencies, therefore sounding quieter. (And if you ever encounter D weighting, plug your ears...it has a god-awful 10dB peak around 8k which can almost be painful! If you're interested, Wiki has a good article on SPL weightings.
Finally, I have to say that I don't worry too much about mixing at 85dB anyway. I tend to go with what's comfortable for the style of thing I'm working on.
4140, do you own a decently sized, 32"+. FSTV? If so, set the sound on MTV or similar to 85dBC at the viewing position. You should observe two things..
1) The TV will likely struggle to deliver clean sound at 85dB, might not even get there.
2) Flipping back to a 'soap' channel, you and the rest of the folks with you will find that level uncomfortably loud.
This all assumes the room is reasonably quiet.
AFAIK 85C was chosen as a reference because is it a sound level where human hearing is fairly 'flat' (G'ge 'Equal Loudness Curves') and also perhaps is a level which gives virtually no hearing damage as an AVERAGE over an 8hr period*. There also the fact that it seems logical to have other people in the production chain working at the same level YOU did when you sent your files off for mastering.
So, what to do? If you already have the system calibrated to 85C, mark that in some way. Now reduce the level to one you are comfortable with (and possibly the rest of the house!) and measure and set that, it will probably sit at around 70-75dBC and it is perhaps NO coincidence that that is the average level of speech at conversational distances (mics USED to be specc'ed at 75dBSPL but I guess 1Pa/V makes the adpuff peeps feel better!). Do your work at the reduced level but check from t2t that it sounds ok at 85.
*This does NOT mean you should ever work an 8 hr stretch! Ears fatigue fairly quickly and especially if checking at the higher level, rest them for an hour or two at least every two hours or sooner if you detect problems such as ringing or a loss of sensitivity when things go 'quiet'.
This post has just reminded me that I was going to look into some means of measuring the SPLs delivered by headphones that is practical for the HR bod. Will have a go..Promise!
(4140, are you anything to do with the metal or gun industry?)
Dave.
1) The TV will likely struggle to deliver clean sound at 85dB, might not even get there.
2) Flipping back to a 'soap' channel, you and the rest of the folks with you will find that level uncomfortably loud.
This all assumes the room is reasonably quiet.
AFAIK 85C was chosen as a reference because is it a sound level where human hearing is fairly 'flat' (G'ge 'Equal Loudness Curves') and also perhaps is a level which gives virtually no hearing damage as an AVERAGE over an 8hr period*. There also the fact that it seems logical to have other people in the production chain working at the same level YOU did when you sent your files off for mastering.
So, what to do? If you already have the system calibrated to 85C, mark that in some way. Now reduce the level to one you are comfortable with (and possibly the rest of the house!) and measure and set that, it will probably sit at around 70-75dBC and it is perhaps NO coincidence that that is the average level of speech at conversational distances (mics USED to be specc'ed at 75dBSPL but I guess 1Pa/V makes the adpuff peeps feel better!). Do your work at the reduced level but check from t2t that it sounds ok at 85.
*This does NOT mean you should ever work an 8 hr stretch! Ears fatigue fairly quickly and especially if checking at the higher level, rest them for an hour or two at least every two hours or sooner if you detect problems such as ringing or a loss of sensitivity when things go 'quiet'.
This post has just reminded me that I was going to look into some means of measuring the SPLs delivered by headphones that is practical for the HR bod. Will have a go..Promise!
(4140, are you anything to do with the metal or gun industry?)
Dave.
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No, not metal... Not yet anyway (but I have plans
The ep I'm working on is pretty chill actually, kind of a massive attack /team sleep vibe. 70 db seems comfortable... So basically I get the mix going at a comfortable volume and check it at 85db... I need to make sure I have the weight set right, that might have something to do with it.... Thanks for the help
Farview
Well-known member
Now that I'm not on my phone, I can elaborate a bit.
85db is kind of the sweet spot where you have enough volume to push enough air to hear everything well, but it isn't loud enough to damage your hearing. At lower volumes, it's easy to misjudge the low end or not notice some upper midrange spikiness. Turning it up to 85db will help these things stick out.
85db is kind of the sweet spot where you have enough volume to push enough air to hear everything well, but it isn't loud enough to damage your hearing. At lower volumes, it's easy to misjudge the low end or not notice some upper midrange spikiness. Turning it up to 85db will help these things stick out.
Mack Caster
Banned
No, not metal... Not yet anyway (but I have plans
The ep I'm working on is pretty chill actually, kind of a massive attack /team sleep vibe. 70 db seems comfortable... So basically I get the mix going at a comfortable volume and check it at 85db... I need to make sure I have the weight set right, that might have something to do with it.... Thanks for the help
In a Professional Recording Control Room, they have spent major $$$ to control how the sound effects their rooms. Most will mix between the 65db and 80db range. If you are doing this in a UN-treated room, this simply will not work for you and this is why you perceive it as being to loud.
Go with your gut and do what you think needs to be done at the level that is pleasant to your ears. If you are going to use the figures of a professional studio, then you need to be in a professional studio. Myself, sometimes I will mix at 50dbs. You must not exceed your limitations.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
I have to admit, the 15x15 thing sort of sparked me on "the room" also --
Ain't no doubt, (1) a room that size is going to require a mess of broadband absorption just to make it *somewhat* workable (when I say "a mess of" I mean a bare minimum of a dozen 2'x4'x4" panels or better just to start making a dent).
Because (2) 85dBSPL shouldn't be "overwhelming" by any stretch. It could potentially get your heart pumping - It should make you want to turn it up even more with a good sounding tune --
But in a bad space, all that sound is hanging around for *so* long, you can't hear any detail. It sounds like it's coming from everywhere (because it is) and the space isn't big enough for your ears to differentiate the source from the wash of reflections.
Ain't no doubt, (1) a room that size is going to require a mess of broadband absorption just to make it *somewhat* workable (when I say "a mess of" I mean a bare minimum of a dozen 2'x4'x4" panels or better just to start making a dent).
Because (2) 85dBSPL shouldn't be "overwhelming" by any stretch. It could potentially get your heart pumping - It should make you want to turn it up even more with a good sounding tune --
But in a bad space, all that sound is hanging around for *so* long, you can't hear any detail. It sounds like it's coming from everywhere (because it is) and the space isn't big enough for your ears to differentiate the source from the wash of reflections.
keith.rogers
Well-known member
Kind of along [MENTION=23296]Massive Master[/MENTION]'s comment, what kind of treatment do you have in the room? Because if it's not treated at all, it's not really pink noise once it gets out of the speakers in that room.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Errr...No?
If you've done it correctly, then you have the pink noise at the reference level you intend to use for your mixes - most will be 12, 18, even maybe 23db down from full scale. This is presumably the integrated loudness of the music you intend to mix. It will in fact be that loud most of the time and peak higher.
It IS kind of loud. I'm about to go (try to) calibrate my own monitors in a coffee and a cig or two.
I would not DARE cross solder irons with Bobbsy but I did think an 85dB level was referenced to -18dBFS? That of course then assumes your monitors can produce a level just in excess of 100dB SPL.
Neg 18 being the EU/UK standard.
Dave.
Mack Caster
Banned
Here is where the problem lies. Most everything is now submitted under the AES standards, in the USA, which does not reflect the EU/UK standards. This is a fight that has been going on for a few years now. The solution is simple. Submit your audio under the flag you are willing to die for or at least get the most recognition. It really is just that simple.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
And now having done that (85dbSPL @ -15dbFS), I'll say again that it IS kind of loud. Not overwhelming I think, but a little startling when it comes on all at once. It really is about where I naturally gravitate to, but I've readjusted things so that I can have a bit more useful range on my "monitor controller", and evened out the L/R balance a bit.