$6,000 Studio Build (Buying Within Week)

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Broth3rz

New member
Within the next week I will be setting up a studio to finally get into what I love, TV, Film, & Game music composing! I've been trying to post on that GearSlutz website and they have been 99% non-helpful, worthless site. So I'm hoping this site will help!

I'm a newbie when it comes to media and I'm willing to learn, just need to help is all. Anyways, even though I am just starting I'd like to future proof some and I'd like gear that is between middle and high end. I do not want crap I will replace soon.

The computer I am buying is this build but with a 1080 Ti. So what I really need help choosing are speakers ($1,000), external audio interface ($800), a new 88 key keyboard ($1,000), and amazing headphones ($400).

I could wait on the headphones and apply that cash to better speakers? But I was told headphones are necessary because of the times you need to master and change EQ, reverb, etc. If I wait on headphones I could upgrade from the Adam A5 to the A7, unless there is something better in that price range?

  1. From some research I've done I was going to go with the Adam A5X speakers, but then I was told I need a good subwoofer with those? Then I also hear Mackie is making great speakers. I don't know the specs to even go by when buying speakers, you know, what makes them good.
  2. I've heard a lot of good things about the Babyface Pro so I was going to snag one of those, but is it worth the $200-300 more to go PCI? I hear its better on latency. By latency I guess everyone means from the time I hit the keys on my keyboard to the time I see and hear that key / note on the PC?
  3. Headphones I don't know much about, I heard the HD650's are good and maybe the AKG brand?
  4. I have a Yamaha YPG-625 at the moment and its a good keyboard but I was wanting something newer that doesn't have to be a workstation but has good USB technology and such.

If it matters I will be using Pro Tools, Kontakt, Eastwest, tons of other VI's, etc. I will only have my keyboard and guitar plugged into the interface I get. With the 64GB of memory and 6800K my PC shouldn't have any issues with running all this.

So if any of you'd be kind to give me some real information and feedback and most of all.. suggestions, that would be great. Again, I don't wanna buy crap. I wanna be set for quite awhile. And if anyone is wondering I build a 9 foot wide desk for my workstation area so I don't need anything like that.

Thanks!
 
Broth3rz said:
I've been trying to post on that GearSlutz website and they have been 99% non-helpful, worthless site.
Click to expand...

:laughings:

Well...GS is not the place for total recording newbs...most of those guys have been into it pretty deep for some time, so they're focus has long since moved away from the needs of a newb...and especially for the type of stuff you want to do. Most of those guys are doing artist/band stuff, though maybe there are some doing film and game too.
Don't take it personally.

I really don't want to recommend anything specific for you to buy, other than to say...if you're planning to buy up all this stuff within the week...and your totally unsure of what to buy and what you need...slow down.
There's TONS of info on the internet...the same shit you will find here...is probably already on the web at multiple locations.
Google is your friend...and just do some more research and reading.

Asking someone what YOU should buy is kind of a waste of time, IMO. Oh sure, lots of people will give you lots of good suggestions, all valid from their perspective...but YOU are the one who still needs to make the decisions.

No matter what...monitors, headphones, keyboards, computers...you will get many different suggestions, and most will be valid...so you have to sort through that.

You have some goo direction already with some of the items you mentioned. Not sure how serious this is going to be for you...but even just for hobby sake, you will want to do some room acoustic treatment...even just a few bass traps and some broad band traps will be better than nothing, so include that in your Google searches. Check out GIK Acoustics for a start, and you can see what all is there and the pricing...or, there's plenty of info for building your own...if you are into that sort of thing.

If you plan to just plug your guitars and keys into the interface...you almost don't need any mics...BUT...it might be good to have at least 1-2...for when you want to record some acoustic instruments, or just vocal sounds or what heave you...which means you should have at least a couple of preamp channels on your interface.

So...take some more time...don't rush into it just to buy stuff. You can have a nice setup to start with for $6k...but, you have to purchase wisely and that will take more research.

Now I'm sure you'll get a bunch of posts from others telling you what to buy...so take it all in and makes some decisions.
 
miroslav said:
:laughings:

Well...GS is not the place for total recording newbs...most of those guys have been into it pretty deep for some time, so they're focus has long since moved away from the needs of a newb...and especially for the type of stuff you want to do. Most of those guys are doing artist/band stuff, though maybe there are some doing film and game too.
Don't take it personally.

I really don't want to recommend anything specific for you to buy, other than to say...if you're planning to buy up all this stuff within the week...and your totally unsure of what to buy and what you need...slow down.
There's TONS of info on the internet...the same shit you will find here...is probably already on the web at multiple locations.
Google is your friend...and just do some more research and reading.

Asking someone what YOU should buy is kind of a waste of time, IMO. Oh sure, lots of people will give you lots of good suggestions, all valid from their perspective...but YOU are the one who still needs to make the decisions.

No matter what...monitors, headphones, keyboards, computers...you will get many different suggestions, and most will be valid...so you have to sort through that.

You have some goo direction already with some of the items you mentioned. Not sure how serious this is going to be for you...but even just for hobby sake, you will want to do some room acoustic treatment...even just a few bass traps and some broad band traps will be better than nothing, so include that in your Google searches. Check out GIK Acoustics for a start, and you can see what all is there and the pricing...or, there's plenty of info for building your own...if you are into that sort of thing.

If you plan to just plug your guitars and keys into the interface...you almost don't need any mics...BUT...it might be good to have at least 1-2...for when you want to record some acoustic instruments, or just vocal sounds or what heave you...which means you should have at least a couple of preamp channels on your interface.

So...take some more time...don't rush into it just to buy stuff. You can have a nice setup to start with for $6k...but, you have to purchase wisely and that will take more research.

Now I'm sure you'll get a bunch of posts from others telling you what to buy...so take it all in and makes some decisions.
Click to expand...

That was a solid response. Well placed Miro. :)

I agree completely here.
 
Totally agree with Miro's post and I won't join the rush to advise on specific makes and models. However, a couple of details are in order.

First, latency isn't a slight delay between pressing play and hearing sound. It's something that can be much more troublesome. Depending on your set up, you may be forced to listen to the sound you're recording after a round trip through your computer. Latency is the time from input to output and more than a very small amount can cause havoc with your timing. Many interfaces provide a way to give you a monitor mix direct from the interface without this round trip--but if you're a big user of MIDI VSTi on your computer, direct monitoring is not always a full solution. There are other ways around this--for example a GOOD usb mixer with pre fade auxes but you need to have a think about your needs and decide whether latency is a major issue or if direct monitoring will suffice.

Second, the advice to buy expensive headphones to start with and wait for better monitors is very bad. Mixing on headphones can be done but it's never as easy/satisfactory as having adequate monitors and decent acoustic treatment in your room

I agree with the advice to slow down a bit, research more and buy things as you need them as you start to understand more about your choices.
 
Solid advice. I agree. But I've been saving to start out for years now and I know that I wanna to do it professionally. And I know what methods I will be using such as Pro Tools, VSTs, Play / Kontakt, guitar and piano connected only, no mic, etc. The best way for me to learn is to jump in and get some decent gear, because if I get the gear and jump into it I'll be in Pro Tools, I'll be hooking things up, learning what XLR and TRS is, etc. I will be able to see the problems and why I have them, and learn from those experiences. If I just sit around and read I'll most likely won't retain any of the information and get bored anyways and won't ever get around to getting into it.

What I'm looking for is for my needs as I've listed, is good solid recommendations for products that would keep me in good standing for years to come and why you recommend those items so I can learn why this or that was selected. Also I built my custom desk and it's part of my new setup and once I set it up it's time for a PC upgrade which means I might as well jump into buying the gear I need for music composing. I learn best when I'm trying to do what I want.

So that's why I'm seeking product recommendations and why they are recommended, and thoughts on what I listed. If no one recommends anything then I won't learn why they would have recommended x item. My point is, by doing it and being evolved in it is how I will learn, through experience. But... I have to have gear to do that, right? ;)

Also, how one one acoustically treat a room? :o
 
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+2 Don't rush (in fact if you are as "ignorant" WTGR, about the technical aspects as you appear I would look for a basic, $150 AI, some headphones and a mic and get some experience?)

Latency could be a big issue as Bobbs has said but yes, RME kit is about as good as you will get in that regard. But won't the Babyface look a bit er, SILLY in a "pro" studio? Fine on location, but in a pile of other kit? The UCX is twice your AI budget but worth a ponder methinks?

Echoing Bob again, yes, best monitors you can afford AND the room treatment. There are legions of £100 cans that will serve for "intimate" checks and for work where you cannot have live monitors and open mics, these need to be of the closed type. (I really don't know but I suspect you would need a sub for film work?)

Now, do NOT desert us but have a varder over at soundonsound.com forum. Especially look up their "Studio SOS" series of articles.

And finally, a Hobby Horse of mine yes but! GET SOME ELECTRONICS SMARTS! Learn to solder, cables and making simple "gadgets" . Such skills can save you money but also get the job done on a wet Sunday afternoon when the 'tronics shops are shut.

Dave.
 
Okay. I still recommend more research on your exact needs before you start, but...

RME make excellent interfaces but make sure the basic Babyface has enough inputs for you. Despite talk of 10in/12out or whatever, the basic box only has 2 analogue inputs and one stereo pair out plus headphones. Anything else needs inputs/preamps with an ADAT output. ADAT limits you to 44.1/48kHz sampling Personally I have no problem with that but it won't be long until somebody tells you you NEED 96kHz. You might look at the Babyface Pro which gives you a few more inputs. However, for a radical idea (from somebody who never recommends mixers) I'd suggest you look at the Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK. This gives you excellent pre amps, enough inputs to have a couple of mics and a couple of keyboard line outs plugged in permanently plus let you do monitoring latency free with an Aux bus. The one drawback I better mention before ecc83 jumps on me is that you'd have to do MIDI inputs via USB--but nowadays that's rarely an issue.

I personally don't think PCI is the way to go in this day and age. If you want longevity, going that direction probably won't make a noticeable difference to latency but could be a bit restricting next time you want to upgrade/change your computer.

Monitors? I've never heard them but the Adams you mention have a good reputation The alternative you might want to have a listen to would be the equivalent from the Tannoy Reveal range--an excellent, smooth pro-quality sound. The only other suggestion I'd have would be anything from the Genelec range. Those are truly professional and get used in a lot of broadcast studios.

Acoustic treatment? For professional work probably the second most important thing after your talent. Even much cheaper interfaces/mixers/mics/keyboards can sound professional but a bad sounding room--and virtually all domestic rooms sound bad--can never be fixed. You'll have a slight echoey ambience on any mic recordings and, even worse, it will be difficult/impossible to do a reliable mix because any normal room gives you bass funnies. I won't try to tell you how to acoustically treat a room--there are whole books, even 4 year university degrees--on that topic. The HR has a whole sub forum on the topic--I strongly suggest you read all the stickies there to get started.

I'll leave others to talk keyboards as it's not my area of specialty. The one thing I CAN say is that a friend who IS a pro composer (TV commercials, films, etc.) has a bunch but he seems to always fall back on his Korg Triton. Dunno why but he's in love with it.

However, I'll end with the downer that you REALLY need more reading/research before you spend your hard-saved money. Things like your misunderstanding of latency and questions about acoustic treatment tell me that you're at risk of either making a mistake or being ripped off.
 
"The one drawback I better mention before ecc83 jumps on me is that you'd have to do MIDI inputs via USB--but nowadays that's rarely an issue."

Touche! Actually B.O.F is going to say "get a Native Instruments KA6 as your "training" AI. As much I/O as the Babyface (but no ADAT, WISH they bloody would !) and really low latency WITH MIDI. But! if you go for the Sig' mixer (excellent idea B!) the KA6 can still be used as a very low latency MIDI interface. I have had no personal experience of the cheap MIDI-USB converters that abound but did read of many driver issues with then in the past. The KA6 will have no such issues, drivers are second only to RME in goodliness. Plus of course the AI makes an nice compact and beejew location recorder or "other room" D to A for editing and is virtually a Monitor Controller as well.

Dave.
 
Fork! Just noticed.."Built a 9 foot desk for my workstation" Now THAT is going to cause some "early reflection" imaging problems!

Dave.
 
You've already got some solid advice here. SLOW DOWN. You don't need to buy the most high-end AI or headphones you can find at this point. If you don't even know the difference between TRS and XLR at this stage, you have a huge learning curve to start - not just the gear but recording itself. You have to learn "what does what" when you tweak inputs, adjust gain, EQ, compression, etc etc etc.
Buying $6000 of gear doesn't make your first mixes any better than starting with $500 worth of gear.
As already mentioned - acoustics - your room - are super important. It sounds like you haven't even read up on room treatment yet. Monitors - very important, but without a treated room, you can only get so much from them.
That Yammie has weighted action, and USB (I assume it is MIDI), you don't need to buy a new keyboard at this point. Unless you are looking to record the actual audio from a keyboard, almost any keyboard with MIDI can be used to use VSTi's (virtual instruments), and many people use $99 MIDI-only controllers.
 
The end goal is to have good mixes. Like Mike said, the equipment alone won't give you that anymore than the lower priced stuff if you haven't mixed a thing. You need to develop the skills in order to use it, which can take years. Get a computer with a fast processor, some monitors and phones, a $100 interface, DAW, and start learning how to mix. When your needs/skills change, then upgrade what you think you need to upgrade, piece by piece.

The bigger concern is knowing how wide your Q needs to be, setting pre-delay for your vocals, pan positions, and everything else that has to do with mixing skills alone.

Put it this way: People don't make good mixes just because they have fancy equipment --- they have fancy equipment because they make good mixes.
 
mjbphotos said:
That Yammie has weighted action, and USB (I assume it is MIDI), you don't need to buy a new keyboard at this point. Unless you are looking to record the actual audio from a keyboard, almost any keyboard with MIDI can be used to use VSTi's (virtual instruments), and many people use $99 MIDI-only controllers.
Click to expand...

This is the rear of my keyboard. I don't have a MIDI out, so what's the best way to connect it to the Babyface Pro?
 
Broth3rz said:
This is the rear of my keyboard. I don't have a MIDI out, so what's the best way to connect it to the Babyface Pro?
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The Yammy won't connect to the Babyface Pro for MIDI. The audio out of the 'PHONES/OUTPUT' jack can be connected to the IN3 & IN4 Line ins of the Babyface Pro with the proper cable... https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/STP202

From the USB HOST port to the computers USB port which will communicate both ways (transmit and receive). Start reading at page 100 of the manual (if I downloaded the same revision you have) which does show the connection. Your keyboard can do velocity and pitch bend, but not aftertouch, but enough to get started with. Manuals are handy and sometimes worth a look at :)

The keyboard appears to have basic functions you'll need to play VST's. The MIDI implementation chart for the keyboard below (half of it) lends an idea of functions that can be used via MIDI. Good idea to learn how to read a MIDI implementation chart so as to have an understanding if a MIDI device can do what you want it to do.

If you don't yet have a DAW program that can load VST's, you could try a host to load them and try the keyboard (haven't tried this so you're on your own). Even grab Reaper which can used for free as a starter for a host.
Free VST Host Application Roundup! - Bedroom Producers Blog

I just grabbed Anubis from the link below and installed the VST dll in Reaper. It does work with Reaper OK. Don't know about another host, but give it a go and see if you can get it working.
Synthesizers | myVST

As others kinda said, a less expensive interface would get you started and as you learn more about the direction you want to head, you'll have a better grasp on the type of gear you'll want for an upgrade.

Do you have any gear or software presently other then the Yammy keyboard?
 

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Once I built my desk I was going to upgrade to a desktop and get all the music gear since my current setup is unworkable with ANY gear. I was thinking on upgrading to a newer keyboard with better support but I thought I could do USB to XLR and still use it with the BFPro? Guess not... if I do the headphone jack to BFP, will I lose quality or anything with not using the MIDI connection?

I used to use this Yamaha with Reason LONG ago and it worked, but that was plugged directly into my PC at the time. I've messed around with VSTi's quite a bit and I think I wrote this like 7 years ago in 10 minutes just playing with Eastwest.

Once I get my studio set up with desk and ordered everything, that is when I was going to buy Composer Cloud and Pro Tools and that dumb iLok. I did some research and I couldn't find anything good to buy keyboard wise, I have to have 88 key. But with the reviews I saw of BabyFace Pro, I'm going to buy that since I don't need ANY MIC's and will only need 2 inputs for keyboard and guitar, nothing else apart from speakers. And even in future I won't need MIC's since I"m doing instrumental music, not band music.

Just doesn't seem to be any good keyboards out there that aren't workstations, which I don't need or I'd buy Korg. I was planning on buying a keyboard with MIDI but didn't find anything good as I've said. Keyboard is most important instrument for me to get hooked up and going.

I have a lame guitar but I was going to replace that so I don't really have anything else. This is the time I was waiting for to finally get started and get everything I need to keep me going for quite awhile.

I understand what everyone is saying. But I know the direction I want to head and I know what all I will need such as only using guitar, keyboard and speakers, nothing more since I will be making only instrumental music with VSTi's. I rather spend more now then have to get rid of a worse product and spend more money later trying to find something better. I see as a waste of money having to replace something many times. I do agree with that if you'd low on cash, but I've been saving for this. I wanna be loaded up and get into it and mess around and start learning everything and making music.

If it's better to do MIDI vs the TRS and headphone jack then I can afford a new keyboard as I was wanting if I can find a good one.
 
Just need good quality. Guess I need MIDI out for the BabyFace Pro. Grand piano weighted keys. I don't need a workstation like Korg products. I don't need anything special like that Komplete Kontrol keyboard. I guess just a solid modern controller with 88 keys that gives me the ability to play the VST's I load, course it needs to have a good piano sound. The keyboard I have now has like 500 sounds but I never use them and wouldn't if I have VST's in front of me anyways.

It can't be longer / wider then 5 ft or more then 7 inches thick.

This doesn't look too bad, never heard of them and need to see if I can find some reviews and feedback.
 
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If I decide to do interface, I guess I need to connect keyboard MIDI to MIDI on BFP. I'll have to keep looking around, don't seem to like anything at the moment. :|
 
Question: with mention of the Babyface, I think we've all been sort of assuming that you'll be recording some stuff with live mics like a guitar or vocals or whatever. Will you ever need that ability or is your work strictly with the keyboard?

I ask because if all you need is MIDI, you gain nothing by purchasing a high end interface for the best microphone pre amps. Midi is like a data connection into your computer and you're simply sending control codes. The interface won't affect the sound at all. Something like an Alesis i02 (about $100) would do your MIDI for you and still give two decent analogue inputs should you ever decide to plug in a mic or DI an electric guitar or something. The amount you save would go a long way towards acoustic treatment and maybe even upgrade the monitors a bit.

If you had a keyboard with USB MIDI you might do without any interface, though having an interface would certainly make monitoring easier.
 
That's a great point. What do you mean "having an interface would certainly make monitoring easier"?

I just plan on having my guitar and keyboard plugged in into it. If I ever wanna do acoustic guitar it will most likely be a good electric acoustic guitar. I don't plan on using any MIC's. I guess I never do plan on recording live from MIC's. I may in the future try the POD or Eleven Rack for the guitar. I guess I could do what you said and get the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, but my main question with that is will my Adam speakers suffer from having a weak / cheap audio interface vs the BabyFace Pro? Would they have better quality with that then the 2i2 ?

So I guess sound would only matter with the guitar, but I'm not sure of the features and benefits for using a POD or Eleven Rack for the guitar vs the BabyFace Pro. Does BFP come with guitar effects and all those settings like the POD or Eleven Rack? Or does it just record clean sound and that's all?
 
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