"Walking Alone"

JohnnyAmato

JohnnyAmato

New member
It never fails, I print something that I'm ready for feedback on, bring it out of the studio to my laptop, upload it, quick listen with my good cans on the laptop before I post it in the clinic, and I find things not quite right that I wasn't really hearing on my monitors down in the studio. :facepalm: Oh well, I'm posting it anyway. :thumbs up:

I haven't been around much, been super busy working on my own stuff of course, but I'm also in the process of starting my own mixing/production business, and basically already have my first client.

She's Laurie Green, a great songwriter who has an album worth of songs written, and we're about halfway through all the tracking, so I figured I'd throw one up here.

My wife is doing all the vocals on this one, and I'm on all the instruments; guitars, bass, keys, etc.

It's over-limited, didn't seem like it on the monitors or headphones in the studio, or in the car, but does here on the laptop with the exact same headphones for some reason. I was working with Kid Rock's "Born Free" as a reference track, and in trying to match the levels, I might have went too far. I hate the loudness wars. Curious how it feels on some of your other systems.

Any input on levels would be awesome, my wife has a very dynamic voice, and not the easiest to mix. Probably still needs a little work.

I'll try to get a slightly less limited version up soon, after some feedback. Thanks!

Walking Alone | Johnny Amato
 
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It's the lead vocal that seems a bit out of place, to me. I can't sense any space around it, for the most part...like it's shoved in there real tight between the instruments, and I really want to hear the reverb tail during those quieter vocal passages, but it's just not there..the music is crushing in on it. Does that make sense?

It could be the raw vocal, where are you recording the vocals? Have you thrown both a verb and a delay on them? Otherwise, this is really good. Right from the start, it all blends well.
 
andrushkiwt said:
It's the lead vocal that seems a bit out of place, to me. I can't sense any space around it, for the most part...like it's shoved in there real tight between the instruments, and I really want to hear the reverb tail during those quieter vocal passages, but it's just not there..the music is crushing in on it. Does that make sense?

It could be the raw vocal, where are you recording the vocals? Have you thrown both a verb and a delay on them? Otherwise, this is really good. Right from the start, it all blends well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen, Taras.

The lead vocal seemed a little dry to me as well, but with more reverb (tried a few different ones) I wasn't really liking it. There is a quick slap on it as well. I up'ed the reverb a little in this new version, also took the limiter (Waves L2) down 1db, and also tamed down the "rear bus" just a hair. Hopefully improvements.

It's a pretty dense song, so I'm struggling with getting the vocal to have more space around it, not sure if more reverb is the answer. The drums, bass, and lead vocal all have parallel compression buses, as does the whole mix minus the drums and bass (Rear bus trick) One of my recent pics on Facebook shows where I track my vocals, I always have a problem uploading pics here.

Basically, all this is going on:

-Two strumming rhythm acoustics hard panned, pretty low in the mix though, their strumming is more "felt" than heard
-Two rhythm electrics panned 85% L&R throughout, different amps
-Two more rhythm electrics come in on the chorus hard panned this time for a tad more width, two different amps again
-Underlying organ, low in the mix, but there (B3-ish sound)
-Main melody is a stereo doubled acoustic line, panned about 50% L&R, electric lead fills throughout dead center; there are a few fills (after the solo)
that are hard panned octaves or something, I forget
-A few piano build-ups
-A fairly low tambourine
-Drums and bass, obviously

Going to let it sit for a few days to see if I get some more input and get back to other things I'm working on. Here's the most recent rough mix.

Walking Alone | Johnny Amato
 
Hey Johnny, good song and performances. I'm with Taras. Everything is stepping on your vocalist, guitars especially. I'm hearing the grit in her voice but not the softer parts and the nuances, which are getting drowned out.

I'd roll it back to raw tracks and rebuild the mix from the ground up, starting with vocals, kick/snare and bass.
 
Messed with it a for a few hours last night, still having some trouble with the vocal level. I evened it out a little more by bringing up a few quiet words and phrases, turned up the send to the slap 1db, and pulled the rhythm guitar tracks down 1db each. Hopefully I'm getting more in the ballpark. Also worked on the drums quite a bit, trying to add more realism, with the hats mostly.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm using "Born Free" as a reference track. I'm not quite there yet, but feel I'm getting closer. It seems my tune has more low-mids because it's a little more dense, but I'm not exactly sure what to focus on. I'm obviously not trying to copy it, but it's sort of a similar feel, and I have the cd, so I threw it into the session. If anyone's interested in A/B'ing and commenting on what jumps out, that would be awesome.

Walking Alone | Johnny Amato


YouTube
 
Not at home, so only have my headphones. Sounding a bit better. Now, I'm mostly hearing EQ fixes on the vocal. Clear some mud out. I would also think about putting the delay vocal segments to the side, rather than directly behind the lead at C. But yeah, I'm hearing the vocal better - it's cutting through more, has space around it, and the little nuances are more present.
 
It's a step forward. I'd still be more aggressive in foregrounding your vocalist. You've got two pairs of doubled guitars, acoustic and electric. Those occupy a lot of sonic space. The electric guitars are still crowding the vocalist, IMO. Comparing your tune to the Kid Rock vid, your levels aren't far off but his voice is punching through the mix better.
 
I think the guitars sound great. Lead guitar tone in the solo is excellent. Vocals sound good to my ear. I don't hear the guitars stepping on the vocal but maybe I'm listening to a remix. I will say this...its hard to get the vocal too hot. Most pro recordings tend to have a much hotter vocal than home recordings. .Levels are very well balanced. In fact, I don't hear anything that needs tweaking except....as far as my personal taste and preference go...it could you just a little more bottom end.

Fantastic recording Johnny!
 
The main crunch guitars sound great. But like people are saying, they're covering the lead vocal. They're covering the lead guitar too. I think you can fix that without sacrificing the crunch tone too much. I'd search for some spots to notch out. Look for spots where the vocal is at it's strongest. The vocal sounds strong in the mid 2Ks, so I'd search for a notch to cut in the guitar in that range. The 5K - 6K range is often a good place to cut to give a vocal space. Try there too.

And yeah it's limited to heck.
 
Your wife's vocal has a kind of a Bonnie Tyler quality, maybe not as raspy, but similar oomph. The vocal does seem clouded. You can high pass quite a lot without losing perceived power, with maybe a slight eq boost further up could bring it out better. I'm thinking though maybe the mic is not suiting her voice. Does she have a particular mic she prefers?
 
second version definitely better sonically. not too sure about using a slap back delay on the vocs. your wife sings well. i'd try something different and also use an exciter on her vocs.
 
Great arrangements. I like it.
I listened on the big stereo in the house.
These are just personal nits, but hey, you asked. :)

Overall it seems to be a dark mix, lacking a little bit of definition. Sounds more like a tape recording than digital.
Maybe its the density or there's some mud buildup somewhere, or compression . Dont get me wrong. Its not like I don't like it. Its just the darkness jumped out at me. I had to check if someone messed with my tone settings. Lol

Drums...This may be contributing to that darkness. They seem a bit pulled back in the mix. That may be pulling some of the top end out.
Why I say that, is the kick sounded too woofy to me.

Anyway just some random thoughts. Overall you got a knack for easy to enjoy listenable songs.....and I enjoyed this one as well.
:D

Ps......I can see the Born Fee influence. :)
We all beg, borrow, or steal a litte bit. ;)
 
TripleM said:
The main crunch guitars sound great. But like people are saying, they're covering the lead vocal. They're covering the lead guitar too. I think you can fix that without sacrificing the crunch tone too much. I'd search for some spots to notch out. Look for spots where the vocal is at it's strongest. The vocal sounds strong in the mid 2Ks, so I'd search for a notch to cut in the guitar in that range. The 5K - 6K range is often a good place to cut to give a vocal space. Try there too.

And yeah it's limited to heck.
Click to expand...

Thanks TripM, did already cut some offending mids/high mids from the guitars, but I like your idea of looking for frequency areas where her vocal is strongest. I'll check that out in a day or so, was giving the song a short break to come back fresh, while I work on other stuff. I'm not sure if it's a matter of just turning the guitars down more though, I already turned them down quite a bit from where I originally had them, so I'll look at frequencies first.

Yea it's pretty limited, but it's only doing 2 or 3 db's of reduction, if I recall correctly. I'll look at that, too. I was just trying my best to match levels of that Kid Rock tune, without over-doing it, which is not easy. I don't know how the heck they get things so loud without over-limiting. Like I said earlier, I hate the loudness wars.
 
RFR said:
Great arrangements. I like it.
I listened on the big stereo in the house.
These are just personal nits, but hey, you asked. :)

Overall it seems to be a dark mix, lacking a little bit of definition. Sounds more like a tape recording than digital.
Maybe its the density or there's some mud buildup somewhere, or compression . Dont get me wrong. Its not like I don't like it. Its just the darkness jumped out at me. I had to check if someone messed with my tone settings. Lol

Drums...This may be contributing to that darkness. They seem a bit pulled back in the mix. That may be pulling some of the top end out.
Why I say that, is the kick sounded too woofy to me.

Anyway just some random thoughts. Overall you got a knack for easy to enjoy listenable songs.....and I enjoyed this one as well.
:D

Ps......I can see the Born Fee influence. :)
We all beg, borrow, or steal a litte bit. ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks RFR! Yea I was struggling to make it brighter without it getting harsh, I'll look into it more. The kick has 60htz boosted around 3 or 4 db, was probably too much, thanks for pointing that out. I'll look into the overall drum level, too, I might have tamed the hats a little too much.

Thanks for the insight!
 
sparky123 said:
second version definitely better sonically. not too sure about using a slap back delay on the vocs. your wife sings well. i'd try something different and also use an exciter on her vocs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen Sparky! I don't have an exiter, but I have a few similar plugins. I'll experiment. Thanks!
 
Bulls Hit said:
Your wife's vocal has a kind of a Bonnie Tyler quality, maybe not as raspy, but similar oomph. The vocal does seem clouded. You can high pass quite a lot without losing perceived power, with maybe a slight eq boost further up could bring it out better. I'm thinking though maybe the mic is not suiting her voice. Does she have a particular mic she prefers?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen, Bulls! I used the Slate VMS condenser on her vocals, which has 5 or 6 different emulations of classic mic's. We always gravitate to the C-12, because it is so warm and rich, but it might not be the best choice for this tune. I should probably try a few of the others (you can change the emu's at will, even after recording) I'm thinking about printing a version with the U-47, it's sounds awesome, a little brighter, might punch through better. She's high-passed around 120, and has a high shelf boost by a few db at 10k. I pulled out a db or 2 of a few nasal-y frequencies, but I forget what they were exactly. Thanks for the comments!
 
Hey Johnny, this is my first listen. Really good song. As everyone else has stated, guitars sound excellent. To me, a simple shelf or roll off of the mid-low freq of the vocals may suffice. Thats what I am hearing at least. I think if you cut/notch the instruments your still gonna have too much in there. Sounds great though.
 
Bruthish said:
Hey Johnny, this is my first listen. Really good song. As everyone else has stated, guitars sound excellent. To me, a simple shelf or roll off of the mid-low freq of the vocals may suffice. Thats what I am hearing at least. I think if you cut/notch the instruments your still gonna have too much in there. Sounds great though.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen, Bruthish! Yea it's a constant battle between her voice and all my guitars, I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I bring the song back up in a few days after a break from it! I'm trying to not let the guitars lose their oomph while still getting her vocal to cut through, not easy!

Thanks again!
 
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