The Sun Lies - alternative pop rock

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Second time around with this song. Wanted to redo it with some new gear that I got, including my new(ish) monitors, which I feel have helped my mixing. Thanks to [MENTION=187056]JohnnyAmato[/MENTION] for getting me set up with the new guitar sound - GNX3000. I'm really liking this thing and wish I got into it earlier. It has my usual preferences, including Marshall 800/900, Dual Rec, Soldano, and AC30. Though not real amps, it feels a step closer :) Also, [MENTION=185561]Robus[/MENTION] lent a big hand in helping me shape my guitar tones, as I painstakingly retracked them while he gave some very in-depth perceptions on their tone and character.

Please let me know how the guitars sound, to you. Drums too - did some different things to them this time around, as far as treatment. My new Strat doesn't make an appearance on this tune, but it will make the cut on the next one (already in progress). I've spent my entire summer, the last 2 months, on this song, so please take a minute and share your thoughts on the mix and engineering aspect. Thanks!



For those who want to hear the original file, without SoundCloud, here ya go:





Staring at the way they fold, your eyes,
I have learned a lesson here, learned a lesson here.
Quiet as the TV glows, in time,
all of this will be so clear - it'll be so clear.

The sun lies, across the sky.
In the shade it's cold, maybe your mind is old.
The sun lies, for you and I.
Can't fix your broken wings,
I gave up everything tonight.

Something passes by my head, I know,
it's got a hold on me, you've got a hold on me.
All the while the people said, you know,
he cut you way too deep, he cut you way too deep.

Softly, I told you, to take my other hand,
and save this while you can.
So angry I made you,
when I stood up and let this all just fade away.
 
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I liked the intro.. reminded me of an orchestra checking tuning just prior to playing. Guitars sound great. Bass and drums are tight and pull everything together. I'm getting a great mix in my phones. Well balanced. I first played it via soundcloud and the drums sounded a bit tinny, like a rhythm machine. Then I downloaded to .mp3 and they sounded much better.

Another fine piece of work :cool:

Note : I haven't listened to earlier versions, so not comparing here.
 
spantini said:
I liked the intro.. reminded me of an orchestra checking tuning just prior to playing
Click to expand...

Ok great - I wanted the feel of the band setting up in the room and doing a rough take before it comes in, but with weird EQ changes, like you'd hear through some kind of a filter. So that's great that you said that.

I have lost all objectivity on the song, so I'll take a break from it for a few weeks and listen again to what may be causing "tinny" drums. Either the brighter snare or the combo of snare verb and drum bus verb, is my guess. Nothing drastic on EQ for drums, so it must be the pieces themselves or their spatial fx.

Thanks man!
 
I had a GNX3, the older brother to the 3000. I liked it a lot until it died spontaneously. Well, went into a coma and nothing the support ppl suggested could bring it back. (Contrast with an Eventide pedal that died like 6 years out of warranty and they got me to ship it over for repair free of charge). I like your tones on this, they're not harsh at all. You've locked in the bottom end nice and tight. I'm not a fan of the vocal treatment in the intro, bit too linkeny parky for me. Drums cutting through well even when it gets busy. Can't see how you could improve this any more. Nice job
 
Vocal sound is great.

I thought the bass was a little strong and could use a little warmth. It sounds like you gave it a low end EQ boost. If you did, I'd take it down a bit. If you didn't, I'd add some low-midrange.

I dunno, I think I've heard better crunch guitars from you. They sound very good, but they have a little mushy-ness to them. Overdriven a bit too far for my taste.

SC is clobbering your cymbals. I'm pretty sure that's not a problem on your end.
 
Listening now, and I'll comment as I listen.
Beginning strings / pads sound great. I really enjoy the soundscape they are creating. Anticipating something cool.
Guitars seem nice. Full-sounding. I'm not a guitar-guy, but I really like how they sound. The vocal entrance is interesting. The vocals are much thinner than the guitars, but it fits. Very clear and audible.
Drums coming in now... If I'm being honest, I'm a bit let-down that fake drums are used, but I'm a drum-guy. I'm sure nobody else will notice. The drum programming is well done. Balanced, clear, and mixed well. Have you ever considered using a human drummer? :)
Bass seems a bit heavy, but just a touch. @1:29, there's a time-alignment issue between the bass and kick. Same @1:42. Seems that the kick is slightly behind the bass throughout, and at those times, it's aggravated. I'ven noticed other times it's out of sync, too.
@3:10 when everything is going full, it sounds great. The do-do-do's are audible, but buried... Very nice. Main vocal is clear throughout. Guitars are nice, thick and just chunky enough. Harmonies are beautiful.

Great work, brother. Thanks for sharing your talent. I feel uplifted.
 
Re-reading my post and I sounded grumpy. Sorry.

I hope you know that, because of your level, I'm quite a bit harder on your mixes than typical.
 
TripleM said:
Re-reading my post and I sounded grumpy. Sorry.

I hope you know that, because of your level, I'm quite a bit harder on your mixes than typical.
Click to expand...

Nope, all's good. I'm used to my cymbals getting comments from the SC posts. I don't do anything too aggressively to them, and I actually remove quite a bit of high end from them, so not sure what to do about it. I liked these guitars far and away much better than anything I've previously recorded. It feels much better, more responsive while playing them, and they have a dominance and aggressiveness to them that I wasn't able to achieve before. I understand some might not like them any better.

Oh, I didn't boost anything on the bass. I cut away a lot of 150-400, and added a little top end, but didn't boost anywhere. The bass amp (gnx ampeg model) is stock eq. Could be the compression on it - I did smash the bass compression to smithereens. Probably around 12 db total, with 7-8 from the 1176 and another 4-5 from the DC1A.
 
PoeticIntensity said:
Seems that the kick is slightly behind the bass throughout..
Click to expand...

I'll listen again at that spot. I cheated, I'll admit, and time-aligned, by hand, the bass and kick, so not sure what's up. Maybe there's an extra kick hit in there or a bass note that plays 1/16 before/after purposely; I really don't know. I'll look though. :guitar:
 
PoeticIntensity said:
Have you ever considered using a human drummer? :)
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And yes, I have. I have a drummer, but neither of us have an electronic kit to trigger the Superior sounds with. Whenever he hears a new song, the first thing he says is "damnit, I wish I had a kit that I could play along on". I'm thinking of picking something up, so it might happen next year sometime. We'll see.
 
To anyone who is going to listen to this excellent project........be sure to download the mp3 and avoid listening from Sound Cloud. Sound Cloud makes the guitars too crispy and really pushes everything together incorrectly.

Andrushkiwt.......well done!! Kudos to you. I especially liked your use of the sound stage space.....with depth and width so nicely produced and balanced. I have no nit picks really. To me....this is your best work. Not that previous works were lacking.....I just love this song. Thanks for the listen.
 
Mickster said:
To anyone who is going to listen to this excellent project........be sure to download the mp3 and avoid listening from Sound Cloud. Sound Cloud makes the guitars too crispy and really pushes everything together incorrectly.

Andrushkiwt.......well done!! Kudos to you. I especially liked your use of the sound stage space.....with depth and width so nicely produced and balanced. I have no nit picks really. To me....this is your best work. Not that previous works were lacking.....I just love this song. Thanks for the listen.
Click to expand...

Hey thanks. Is there really that big a difference between the files? I've only listened once to SC, in the car, and I thought it sounded more compressed but not overbearingly so. Hmm. I'll listen to it on my monitors. Thanks for the insight.
 
What are the guidelines, then, for posting to SC? Do they use a limiter and raise volume, or are they just compressing? If they are compressing, what type of compression is it? I'd guess quick attack/long release, but I'd like to optimize the tracks for SC's processing.

Anyone know what they do to your songs?

edit: I've found some YT videos about processing your songs for SC. The 128 conversion and limiting appear to destroy the high end, for starters. I'll keep looking.
 
Oh yes........big difference for some reason. I listened on my monitors (Tannoy 501A's and JBL LSR 305's) and was not sure what I was hearing that bothered me about the sound. Then I put on my Senn HD600's and I realized the file player might be the problem. I downloaded the mp3 and played on my monitors and my headphones and there's a BIG difference for sure......to me anyway. Take a listen yourself....compare the two files.....with good cans.

And as i mentioned........awesome work!!!
 
Mickster said:
Oh yes........big difference for some reason.
Click to expand...

From what I've found, so far, the 128 for some reason makes your file hotter and not as controlled, level-wise. So it clips, essentially.

At this point, and I realize I'm giving a play-by-play as I use my other open window to navigate YouTube, I'm thinking the solution is to reduce the output level in my limiter. I admit I'm trying to crank level out with my mixes, so there is not much volume difference for friends/listeners. I usually push my limiter to around -0.5, with a 150ms release. I'm thinking -2 with a 250ms release, or so, might be better. And I know specific numbers are never a good thing for mixing - but this is mixing into a pre-made streaming player, with its own properties and mechanics. I never took consideration of what SC is doing into my process, but I think it's time to start.

YouTube
 
Are you uploading a .wav file to SC? I think you already know about that but I'm just checking to be sure.

Also, you may need to leave more than 0.5dB of headroom in the .wav to accommodate altered peaks in a compressed file.
 
Wow, Taras. This is a damn good song man!! I like everything about it and have nothing critical to add. I actually and so impressed I would love to know every about your recording equipment and process. I'm new on here so maybe this info is already posted somewhere and I'm not aware of it. Is this info on here or elsewhere? Thanks
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Are you uploading a .wav file to SC? I think you already know about that but I'm just checking to be sure.

Also, you may need to leave more than 0.5dB of headroom in the .wav to accommodate altered peaks in a compressed file.
Click to expand...

No, it's an mp3. I thought the .wav coming out cleaner was a myth, so I heard. And yeah, apparently so. I'll shoot for 2db next track, but I'll leave this as is.
 
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