"Summer Dream"

JohnnyAmato

JohnnyAmato

New member
New recording from a few months ago that I finally did the vocals on. Been mixing it for about a week, I believe it's close but I've reached the point where I need some input.

-Stereo acoustics (Taylor 816ce), one panned left, one right
-Soft bass track (2006 USA P-Bass)
-Random percussion
-Random acoustic fills and lead (same guitar)
-Some very light underlying synths
-Lead vocals (sometimes doubled); Background harmonies
(Vocals all recorded with the Slate VMS Condenser Mic)

Thanks ahead of time :)

Summer Dream | Johnny Amato
 
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Hey Johnny, good to see you posting a new song. Nice song, great performances.

The mix as it stands is narrow, midrangy, and close to the point of being claustrophobic. Everything else is stepping on your vocals, especially bass and acoustic guitars. I can't tell, but I think that slide guitar part is doing the same. The acoustic guitars need to come down so that they are supporting the vocal, not competing with it. They could use some ambiance as well. Some of the plucked notes are wince-inducing. The bass, slide, and lead vocal are fighting over the same frequencies in the lower midrange, causing a buildup of energy that makes your mix sound harsh and off-putting.

I would start over and rebuild the mix from the bottom up--kick, bass, and vocal, then acoustic guitars and the rest of the kit, then lead guitars--making sure at every stage that that nothing is upstaging your vocal. I would try panning acoustic guitars wider to create a space for the vocal to sit in the center of the mix, and add some ambiance as well. If you are still in tracking mode, the slide could move up an octave during the parts where you are singing. Just a few thoughts.
 
Hey Johnny.

Pretty song. Very nice.

I think the acoustic guitar tone is nice. The mix leans to the left - at least on my system. The guitar on the left is louder than the one on the right. I agree about the midrangey tone. I think part of it might be the compression on the acoustic. Those tracks sound pretty heavily compressed. I'd back off of some of that. And then maybe notch them out somewhere between 2400hz and 2700hz. Very narrow cut, and probably only 3-4 dbs.

I didn't think mix was all that narrow. Not super-wide either. But I didn't get a narrow feel.

The guitars have more detail than the vocal. The vocal sounds a bit cloudy. Lot's of energy around 400hz-600hz. And missing some 5K presence. The harmonies were quite nice. I liked those a lot.

Bass sounded very nice. I might suggest a more "active" bass part. Doing some walk downs/walk ups/runs etc. Just in a few spots. The bass shouldn't be the center of attention. But a little more activity would probably work well.

I liked the song. I think a few tweaks could really shape it up nicely.
 
Thanks for the listens, guys.

The acoustics getting in the way of the vocal is something I've been struggling with. Because of the picking pattern, sometimes the high-picked notes stick out during the vocal lines. I think they do need to be re-EQ'd and brought down some. I directly compared it to "Good Riddance" (Green Day), and that acoustic was surprisingly bright, so I EQ'd mine just as bright- probably a mistake as the arrangements are quite different, that piece is basically just one acoustic and one vocal (until the strings come in later). So I'll start by turning them down and cutting some highs and high-mids, I do agree they need to be warmer.

Not sure how to make it sound wider, as both acoustics are already panned hard left and right, along with their reverbs (didn't really use much reverb on them, will try using more) The lead lines are right down the middle, but never really happen during the vocals (it's actually not a slide, but I can see how it sounds a little like one).

All the background vocals are panned 25-30% right and left, any further and I thought they clashed with the acoustics too much, and sounded too distant from the lead.

Will work with the EQ on my vocals a little more, too. I didn't do much- just a low cut at 100hz, a slight bump at 220, and a few small narrow cuts at 800 and 1000ish. I did boost 7.2 and 10k, but only a tiny bit. I'll look at the frequencies you pointed out.

The percussion is literally just a low kick drum on the 1's, random shakers throughout, a quiet random conga pattern, and a tambourine during the solo and last chorus I think. I will look at the stereo spread of these too.

I spent so much time working on the balance of the lead vocals and background harmonies, and should have spent more time with the balance and EQ of the acoustics. I'll check the R & L balance of them too, I thought the left might have been a tad louder as well, thanks for confirming.

Much appreciated, Thanks guys!
 
The acoustics sound good to me. The vocal has what sounds like a phase issue. The 37 second mark the vocal sounds a little flat and maybe it was auto-tuned? Not that that's a bad thing and maybe not the case but it sounded that way so it might be worth a look.

I'd bump the vocal a db, double check if it has phase issues, and maybe lower the acoustics a db. The acoustics sound good to me with the EQ but a hair loud relative to the vocal. The guitar solo at 2:30 is loud relative to the vocal and the other guitars. It can probably go down quite a bit like 2 or 3db. The mix is close with basically just a few volume tweaks. The thing confusing me is why the vocal sounds like it has phase issues. Is it doubled or any room/mic issues recording it?
 
Nice song-playing is tight, vocals sound well performed. The mix had me jump for the volume knob, i think acoustic songs can get away with a little less level overall. The acoustics are jumping out a bit much for my taste, not sure if it's an eq thing in that 2-3 k range or a compression thing but it takes away some of the natural acoustic thing- like if you were in a room with the guitar what does it sound like...this just pops a bit too much to me. I think the melody, solo guitar parts could come up or stand out in some way from the main acoustic. Is there any verb on the acoustics? Love the harmony solo-super tasty-the synths and percussion also very tastefully done. I notice in the very last seconds that ringing from the acoustics in the 1600hz(i'm guessing around 2 ocatves from A 440?) range or so-you hear that? That seems to accompany the guitars throughout the track, i would try and find that ring and maybe eq? Your vocal mix reminds me of my own, but maybe even more buried than i usually do! Sounds like a great vocal track, it could use some top end and/or volume so every word is clear in my opinion. Really great song makes me think of the woods-just from the sound...Usual great playing, but now singing and songwriting! I think the mix could improve but the quality is obviously there. Nice Work!
 
Nola said:
The acoustics sound good to me. The vocal has what sounds like a phase issue. The 37 second mark the vocal sounds a little flat and maybe it was auto-tuned? Not that that's a bad thing and maybe not the case but it sounded that way so it might be worth a look.

I'd bump the vocal a db, double check if it has phase issues, and maybe lower the acoustics a db. The acoustics sound good to me with the EQ but a hair loud relative to the vocal. The guitar solo at 2:30 is loud relative to the vocal and the other guitars. It can probably go down quite a bit like 2 or 3db. The mix is close with basically just a few volume tweaks. The thing confusing me is why the vocal sounds like it has phase issues. Is it doubled or any room/mic issues recording it?
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Hey Nola, thanks for the listen. No auto-tune, but the lead vocal is doubled. It wasn't my original intention, but liked how it sounded. I don't know the first thing about doubling vocals, so maybe there are EQ tricks to do to the double so it doesn't sound as phasey. I'm going to do some research. Some of the harmonies are also doubled, but panned opposite, so shouldn't be a phase problem there. The lead double is panned right down the center along with the main, maybe that's where I went wrong?
 
Stratomaster said:
Nice song-playing is tight, vocals sound well performed. The mix had me jump for the volume knob, i think acoustic songs can get away with a little less level overall. The acoustics are jumping out a bit much for my taste, not sure if it's an eq thing in that 2-3 k range or a compression thing but it takes away some of the natural acoustic thing- like if you were in a room with the guitar what does it sound like...this just pops a bit too much to me. I think the melody, solo guitar parts could come up or stand out in some way from the main acoustic. Is there any verb on the acoustics? Love the harmony solo-super tasty-the synths and percussion also very tastefully done. I notice in the very last seconds that ringing from the acoustics in the 1600hz(i'm guessing around 2 ocatves from A 440?) range or so-you hear that? That seems to accompany the guitars throughout the track, i would try and find that ring and maybe eq? Your vocal mix reminds me of my own, but maybe even more buried than i usually do! Sounds like a great vocal track, it could use some top end and/or volume so every word is clear in my opinion. Really great song makes me think of the woods-just from the sound...Usual great playing, but now singing and songwriting! I think the mix could improve but the quality is obviously there. Nice Work!
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Hey Strat, thanks for the input! It is pretty loud overall, was trying to match it volume-wise with "Good Riddance", which I never quite got there if I remember correctly (had it as a reference track in the session, but removed it a few days ago)

The 2-3k range in the acoustics was also mentioned by TripleM, so I'm definitely going to be looking in that area. I did put a little hi-shelf on them too, which might be what you're hearing at the end. Should probably remove it. They're not compressed too hard actually, but I'll check the compressors as well (Waves 1176).

There's only a little reverb on the rhythm acoustics, much more on the leads. You say to turn the leads up a tad, Nola says to turn them down a tad, so I'm not sure what to do with them yet. Once I lower/tweak the rhythms, it should become more clear on what exactly to do with the leads. Lowering the rhythms should also help the vocal pop out more without having to actually turn it up much. I'll experiment.

I was afraid to add too much high-end to my vocal, so hardly added any. With the acoustics down a little, it should give me more room to add some sparkle to my lead vocal. Again, I'll experiment.

Thanks for the props on the solo, I love harmonized acoustic melodies! They sound so organic.

Thanks a bunch for the listen and comments! Should hopefully have the next mix up in a day or so. :)
 
JohnnyAmato said:
Hey Nola, thanks for the listen. No auto-tune, but the lead vocal is doubled. It wasn't my original intention, but liked how it sounded. I don't know the first thing about doubling vocals, so maybe there are EQ tricks to do to the double so it doesn't sound as phasey. I'm going to do some research. Some of the harmonies are also doubled, but panned opposite, so shouldn't be a phase problem there. The lead double is panned right down the center along with the main, maybe that's where I went wrong?
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I wish I could help but never double vocals, so I'm really not sure how to EQ or prevent phase. There must be some way since it's very popular! Hopefully someone who knows how to do it can chime in.
 
LOL wow I'm such a dumb***! I just started working on the mix again, and checked the balance on the two acoustics first, and the right side acoustic was panned dead center!!! :facepalm::facepalm: I remember soloing it to check something out the other day so I centered it, and I never put it back hard right!! I then must've gotten used to how it sounded so I didn't even notice. I'm a complete idiot.

This explains alot. The crowded vocal, the narrow mix, the left guitar being louder (obvious!), congested mix, vocal and acoustics fighting for space, etc...

I'm still going to experiment with all the great suggestions, as most of them are still relevant. But wow, it sure did change when I put that right guitar back to hard panned. :facepalm: I hope to have a new mix up soon, I hope you all check it out.
 
Listened on my car system. Haven't yet listened on my studio monitors. Much better. I still think the vocals could come up more.
 
Thanks Robus, appreciate all the help as always. Not sure if you saw my previous post 'cuz it's last on the first page, but the first mix I put up had the right hard-panned acoustic right down the center (whoops!), I was working on something with it and forgot to put it back hard right. I still adjusted everything mentioned, but putting that guitar back hard right obviously made the biggest difference. Still can't believe I did that lol :facepalm:
 
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Didn't hear the original, but this sounds real good. I think I noticed a little bit of the vocals trying to poke through the guitars throughout the song. Where is everything panned?
 
andrushkiwt said:
Didn't hear the original, but this sounds real good. I think I noticed a little bit of the vocals trying to poke through the guitars throughout the song. Where is everything panned?
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Hey Andru-

Rhythm acoustics are hard panned L&R; lead vocals right down the middle; doubled lead vocal varies from 5% L to 5% R; doubled stereo background harmonies 30% R&L.

Bass down the middle, acoustic melodies and solo down the middle (but those don't play during any vocals).

Percussion is just a centered soft kick, spread out shakers and light congas, and a tambourine during the solo (and last chorus, I think)

Two quiet underlying synth pads panned opposite each other 10% off center.

The nature of the picking pattern of the rhythms makes some of the higher picked notes kind of stick out during the verses a little more than I'd like, so it was tricky to make the vocal really pop. It's also capo'd up on the 4th fret, which can make high picked notes like that stubborn and hard to get out of the way. I have a 'rear bus' parallel compression track set up, and that helped quite a bit, but I can probably do better still.
 
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